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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2012 17:51:14 GMT
There is such a wide variation in English Folk which I have to admit with one finger in my ear, I absolutely love.
I love the stories that they tell and the musical athletics of the musicians that are often overlooked because they're not loud and lary.
Some of my favourites include the well known bands such as
Steeleye Span (Although I don't connect with all of their stuff) Fairport Convention (Who I know and adore their music) American taint to some of their stuff. The Albion Band - Real old English stuff. A reaction against Fairport's American influence in British Folk.
Recently, I've come across the Owl Service. Really nice stuff.
The Imagined Village - absolute folk brilliance with the gorgeous Eliza McCarthy and Dad. It incorporates foreign influence into the British culture and does it so well, it's the future imo for British Folk Music. (Although I don't like the politics, it's the reality of modern Britain so this is a landmark imo for British Folk)
More recently - the gorgeous, 'The Urban Folk Quartet'. Originating from Birmingham but the vibrancy and rhythmic twists they put into their stuff is really addictive.
Two albums:
'The Urban Folk Quartet' which isn't a great album title and 'Off Beaten Tracks'.
Their music is addictive, highly rhythmic and very well recorded. The recent album was sent to me to have a jiffy on and it is superb. I think it's been released - it's well worth having a listen if you're into folk.
If you're not into folk, try 'The Imagined Village' first. Modern stories about the past incorporating a 'black' element with that famous black poet Zepheria.... something or other and the use of a sitar in English folk music, but wonderfully integrated. It also incorporates the sharp edge of Billy Bragg.
I'm loving this 'Urban Quartet' stuff.
One thing about folk - you MUST take in the words to follow what they're going on about, so you need a headphone with good vocal clarity. Well worth the effort. Some of the stories really get to me.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2012 18:23:31 GMT
Hi Ian, Interesting post and not one that I expected to see on most audio fora, so (if it's not too condescending ) kudos to you for raising the subject. Folk music is not something I am drawn towards - I tend to put it in the same category as Morris Dancing - OK very infrequently and in very small doses. That means I tend to avoid listening to it and it becomes a vicious circle. I look forward with interest to reading what I expect to be a wide variety of responses as I suspect it will prove to be an issue that will polarise opinions.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2012 18:43:09 GMT
Very quiet here today (Easter processions etc) so I'm having a listen on youtube. I do like a bit of folk if it has guts and The Urban Folk Quartet are sizzling! Joe Broughton especially when on the fiddle. I love fiddle playing anyway, over and above violin playing if you see what I mean. I owned a bodhran for a while which is great fun to play even though I was never proficient in the way I've heard it played by others. That new album you quoted Ian, not even listed on wiki yet Thanks for pointing them out, very refreshing. I'll have to give The Imagined Village a whirl as well.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2012 19:18:38 GMT
You're right, Dave. We tend to associate folk with fat old men with hankies and beards, dancing outside a pub!!
I love the stories being told and the musical illustrations. It's not just acoustic stuff.
In The Imagined Village - Eliza Carthy's Dad (Bless 'im) is speaking about 'ouses. They're stuck into a landscape (of Kent) that he remembers being open fields which are now covered by houses.
It's a ternary form piece (Section A followed by B and then back to A again) An old guy reminiscing followed by the urban sounding section B which is more 'Americanised' with sound effects and then back to the old guy saying that the songs have remained since the old days.
It's a gentle opening to the album but touching:
This one about a black man being naughty with a white girl. Some could find the inclusion of black elements into white English folk quite disturbing, incorporating poetry, rap and good old fashioned story telling.......
His first words ...... 'Don't be scared'
Remembering old England in a 'pub' song including a sitar with Billy:
Indian music in English Folk!!!! (It's here whether we like it or not)
This is just Imagined Village. It's very 'left wing' and many 'old folks' would be put right off by the fact that foreign culture has crept into folk. That's the reality of what British is now and it's creeping into music and folk is moving on with the times.
These clips are live and the album is way better in quality. This is mostly 'drone' stuff here, but it may stretch what you thing folk music actually is and take you away from fat old men dancing with hankies.
Once you can accept that folk moves with the times that it's written in, it's no longer that ancient stuff with men sticking fingers in their ears, but it's relevant to what is happening in Britain today.
All of this stuff is simple drone music related to the old hurdy gurdy of Ye Olde Englande but the personnel in the country is changing and this music is reflecting that.
Chris, I'm not sure that the new Urban Folk Quartet album has been released yet. It's a cracker!!!!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2012 22:43:14 GMT
I checked their site, released yesterday!
I had a wonder through TIV tracks, "Space Girl" haha, one of those tracks I've heard and liked but never knew who did it. One or two others appealed but others did not.
Definitely prefer UFQ....
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Post by XTRProf on Apr 5, 2012 4:04:01 GMT
We tend to associate folk with fat old men with hankies and beards, dancing outside a pub!! Oh, I love folk music when done tastefully. Thanks for the recommendations although I know some of them. Let me hear those that I don't know. Are we still in the middle of the last century? Heh, heh, heh ...........
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Post by XTRProf on Apr 5, 2012 5:22:20 GMT
I have quite a lot of time now and so listen ............ Of all the bands there, I pefer the The Urban Folk Quartet best as well. So we are united in this. However, I still prefer the older folks like these ............ Yup, she was the star for these hits ........ Another famous group ............ Another ....... Another ........ Another ........ Another ........ Another .......... Another .......... Another ......... Better melody. What you guys think? Yeah, we must be in the middle of the last century to enjoy this, btw. Ah!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2012 8:03:22 GMT
Chris, I think UFQ are more like 'pure' folk which is possibly why you prefer it perhaps.
Imagined Village is more like 'modern' folk I guess and many wouldn't like the subject matter and the integration of what 'British' is in their music. The sound of their album is superb since it is so well recorded.
You'd probably like The Owl Service as well.
Another group but not British, that I thought were good are SWAP. There Swedish I think.
Chong - is that collection of folk American stuff? I've been wondering about your name btw. How do you spell it in your language? There are some gorgeous folk pieces from the East. I really like a lady called Sa Ding Ding. Not Chinese but Half Mongolian/Chinese I think. She sings in a very old dialect or language. Great music.
I'm not so fond of American folk. It gets a bit too close to Country and Western and Dolly Parton!!!! Yeeeeee haw and all that.
British folk goes back a long long way and so does Chinese.
However, I also like the progression in folk that follows with the times and the way things that have happened get reported via folk music.
British Folk/Rock but based on an American trad. The ballad of a very stupid Matty Groves!! Fairport Convention - one of my favourite folk/rock bands, but I'm biased!!!!
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Post by XTRProf on Apr 5, 2012 23:45:52 GMT
Chong - is that collection of folk American stuff? I've been wondering about your name btw. How do you spell it in your language? There are some gorgeous folk pieces from the East. I really like a lady called Sa Ding Ding. Not Chinese but Half Mongolian/Chinese I think. She sings in a very old dialect or language. Great music. Mostly yup. [Edit: Taken out name as not too appropriate over the internet. PM sent instead] I'm not so fond of American folk. It gets a bit too close to Country and Western and Dolly Parton!!!! Yeeeeee haw and all that. British folk goes back a long long way and so does Chinese. I digress from that as I find American folk music melody is more to my taste when done properly. I wouldn't say I don't like country music but it's not on top of my list except when it is recorded very well with sonic bliss. Btw, some of the best sonic recordings are unfortunately from country music. This can be because they are not so mainstream as the pop and rock that we know and have less pressure to release it in the way it is in pop or rock. Arrrgghhh, LOUDNESS WAR. Maybe I should say fortunate instead now for country music. So far, have anyone heard country with loudness war yet?
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Post by Crispy on Apr 6, 2012 19:43:17 GMT
Nice thread Ian. I haven't heard much folk music but one of my all time favourite guitarists (Richard Thompson) is classed as folk music. The You-Tube videos are some of his work that I would probably class as Folk music, some of his work though is probably nowhere near Folk See what you think
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2012 21:24:14 GMT
Richard Thompson is ex Fairport as well. He occasionally returns at festivals in the Summer.
He has a line of really good solo CD's in the 80's too.
Early Fairport also included an amazing singer who is now dead - a lady called Sandy Denny. She also sung on one of Led Zep's albums.
Richard Thompson has a very distinct singing voice - we don't hear so much from him nowadays though. I wonder if he's still working?
Folk music tends to be very nicely recorded and works well on headphones. What I like is how it brings up stories from the past and can illustrate them on the instrumental passages between verses.
Matty Groves is a great story and normally, when Fairport play it live, they illustrate it in all kinds of different ways. Folk musicians work mainly from memory and improvise a lot.
What can also be quite strange is to hear a modern folk group play an old folk song that was originally performed a very long time ago, arranged by a collector in the early 1900's by Percy Grainger or Vaughan Williams and then you suddenly hear a new arrangement of that song.
One that The Urban Quartet perform is called 'The Swan' which I remember hearing in the 60's as a kid. It was an old tune then so it must go back quite a way.
Vaughan-Williams and Percy Grainger collected old folk songs in the first half of the 1900's and tried to write them down so we would remember them.
Slowly, as 'Britishness' is becoming eroded, those songs are disappearing and we are losing our sense of identity. Some modern folk bands are keeping the tradition going and some like 'The Imagined Village' are moving what we regard as 'English Folk' on to something quite different.
Rock and Prog rock has almost stood still in that it follows the same rules but the instrumentation and technology improves. Orchestral has kind of developed towards the German tradition of 12 tone and then back to tonal ideas to include Minimalism and nowadays - almost anything goes so it has developed with time. Jazz has moved forwards but with many retrograde bands still playing the old formats as well.
Folk however, has always moved with the times and reflected life at the time of its construction in the stories. That's what I love about it. (At least in the vocals)
There are now people involved in progressive rock using the folk idiom and telling old stories which is also rather nice. Manning is doing that currently.
Once you find a 'brand' of folk you like, it can be very absorbing.
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Post by XTRProf on Apr 7, 2012 0:08:12 GMT
Let me get into Sa Ding Ding. Here: Yup, still folk and it's association with the past tradiitions. But that is already too modernised until it's beginning to lose the folk meaning. On the edge from folk to pop ............ This kind of music is very common in audiophile CDs of Chinese language in Singapore, Hong Kong and China, fyi. It doesn't stimulate me as much as the traditional Chinese folk. Can't show it here as there is no youtube on an audiophile CD of that. If interested, I can give you guys an audiophile wav file of what I mean. Guarantee audiophile pedigree or "money back". Oops, promoter me and not pirate!
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Post by XTRProf on Apr 7, 2012 0:19:57 GMT
I haven't heard much folk music but one of my all time favourite guitarists (Richard Thompson) is classed as folk music. The You-Tube videos are some of his work that I would probably class as Folk music, some of his work though is probably nowhere near Folk I love Richard and Linda Thompson works whether folk or more rock oriented! Here, the famous one:
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2012 7:56:38 GMT
Chong, the only reason I know of Sa Ding Ding was that I met her in the UK when she came over to perform at the Albert Hall for the BBC Folk festival. (I think it was) She can speak English (just) and in the UK, there are only two albums available. They are highly regarded here by folk people and she was talking about using some ancient language from Tibet in her songs. I have no idea; I just like the sound and was transfixed by her. Beautiful lady to say the least when you see her. Are there more of her albums released over there? Here we have 'Alive' www.amazon.co.uk/SA-DING-ALIVE-Sa-Dingding/dp/B0014DAI04/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1333785092&sr=8-3and 'Harmony' www.amazon.co.uk/Harmony-Sa-Dingding/dp/B002VCGSJ2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1333785092&sr=8-1There's not enough Eastern music over here but I must admit to really liking it a lot. (and the food) BTW, that video is quite a commercial one and she may have done some more folksy type stuff but we can't get at it. I know that she mentioned 'throat singing' and all kinds of things when I saw her.
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Post by xerxes on Apr 7, 2012 11:32:23 GMT
Now where did I leave my grey socks and brown sandles.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2012 12:23:20 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2012 12:36:33 GMT
Poor old Dave on the fiddle. He's wheelchair bound now and was reported once as being dead!!
Nice tasteful title; the Hanging Song, with the American folk influence that Fairport developed causing the Albion Band to take a different route. In those days, only three attempts were allowed to hang people and then they would have to be set free by law.
I really liked Dave's playing and voice.
Another pop/folk crossover. The Strawbs on the same theme. I loved this when it came out. A nasty story again!!
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Post by XTRProf on Apr 18, 2012 6:09:18 GMT
Was looking thru some CDs today and saw this ........... Ah, Irish folk as I remember them. So have a listen ........... More a cross between New and Old world. You can tell easily which is which or hybrid. I wouldn't say I like all but this new album does have some tunes that interest me. Btw, there are some heavy weights featured too. Enjoy if you are still in the middle of the last century!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2012 9:50:58 GMT
Interesting thread. I had 'pencilled in' English folk music as a project for this year; I need to explore it and see what's about.
A project from a while back was to explore Holst outside of the well known 'Plantes Suite'. Very worthwhile.
Derek
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2012 14:36:26 GMT
Derek,
Vaughan Williams and Percy Grainger were alongside Holst. Also, you may like Elgar I guess.
Vaughan Williams is one of my favourites and he orchestrated some old English folk songs. I think they're called the English Folk Song Suite and it features a gorgeous long oboe solo in a slow song which is really modal and rustic. 17 Come Sunday is another.
Of course, once you hear the folk songs, Vaughan Williams symphonies are so English. I love them all. The fourth is pretty violent (due to his feelings about the war) and there's the Antarctica Symphony which was used in the film 'Scott of the Antarctic' which is fantastic.
Also worth a listen is William Walton and someone I knew in the 70's - Herbert Howells. He's dead now.
Modern Brits - Tippett and Britten. I'm very fond of Peter Grimes by Britten which is a fisherman's tale.
I do like English folk a lot in all its different forms.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2012 14:52:24 GMT
I must look into more of Vaughan williams repetoire. I must admit to only knowing Lark Ascending, Fantasia on a theme by Thomas Tallis and Greensleeves kind of of material.
Certainly did not know of the folky influence...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2012 15:51:34 GMT
Derek, Vaughan Williams and Percy Grainger were alongside Holst. Also, you may like Elgar I guess. Vaughan Williams is one of my favourites and he orchestrated some old English folk songs. I think they're called the English Folk Song Suite and it features a gorgeous long oboe solo in a slow song which is really modal and rustic. 17 Come Sunday is another. Of course, once you hear the folk songs, Vaughan Williams symphonies are so English. I love them all. The fourth is pretty violent (due to his feelings about the war) and there's the Antarctica Symphony which was used in the film 'Scott of the Antarctic' which is fantastic. Also worth a listen is William Walton and someone I knew in the 70's - Herbert Howells. He's dead now. Modern Brits - Tippett and Britten. I'm very fond of Peter Grimes by Britten which is a fisherman's tale. I do like English folk a lot in all its different forms. Firstly, sorry about my poor typing earlier. Must concentrate. I'm with you on all those suggestions.. except for Elgar; he really does not do it for me. Too many false climaxes... seems to be getting somewhere, almost there, building... and oh, it's collapsed into nothing :-( Do you know the Britten Violin Concerto? Not often heard. Wow. And what about Peter Warlock? The little I have heard I have enjoyed. Derek
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2012 15:57:16 GMT
It had a huge influence on V. Williams, Chris. The English Folk Song Suite is great. He also wrote the London Symphony which has instruments playing the chimes of Big Ben. I love symphony no 2 (I think it is) in D major. It opens with a rumbling C on the double basses (which is the 7th of the scale and flattened since in D, it should be C#) so he uses flattened 7ths a lot in his music which is a 'folk music' thing. The D major symphony is a lovely piece of music and a nice vocal one is 'Flos Campi'.
The Antarctica Symphony was the one used in the film about Scott. It features a wind machine, and a woman singing wordless tunes. It's very spooky. Of course there is the huge Sea Symphony which opens with a big brass fanfare and the choir belt out 'Behold ..... the SEA'. The fanfare is in Bb minor and the word sea is a huge D major chord. They are 'unrelated' so the word sea kind of jumps out at you.
V. Williams is verging on the 'modern' era and Nationalistic era so he's still ina kind of romantic style with many uses of polytonality and modalism. He's not quite dissonant enough to be heard as a modern composer but was great nevertheless.
Herbert Howells was a master of choral pieces. Again, verging on modern sounding but still in the romantic era bordering into modern in spite of living until the 70's. Lovely old man who knew the great English composers.
Talking of English composers but not English sounding. A neighbour of mine once in Barnes wrote a very well known 'African Symphony'. David Fanshawe. He went to Africa and saw and recorded the music of the tribes he met there and integrated the recordings with an orchestral score that is absolutely stunning. He was mental and was risking his life with some of the tribes since they were suspicious of him. Many of those tribes no longer exist, but their music is contained in his symphony and it's really uplifting. A kind of collection of African folk music. He also did an Arabian venture I remember as well.
An eccentric Englishman.
Such good stuff.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2012 19:00:43 GMT
OMG - V- Wlliams 4th Symphony on Radio 3 now!!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2012 21:47:03 GMT
OMG - V- Wlliams 4th Symphony on Radio 3 now!! Bugger! Missed it. My "expat-shield" went diddly-twat and I didn't have time to delete and reload it. It's a shame my knowledge of Classical music is so pathetic, there's lots I'm hearing for the first time (or know who it's by for the first time) and really enjoying. My only no go areas are vocal pieces, choral, opera etc. I just can't tune in to those. It's a great shame my father and his twin brother are deceased, their knowledge was huge. I couldn't believe it when my mother gave away both their collections of music to "someone" unknown without even asking us (the sons)
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