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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2012 21:23:41 GMT
Dave A favourable report by a panel of unbiased testers is far more meaningful to the members than a single report by any one person, no matter which side of the divide they come from. Regards Alex
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2012 21:32:48 GMT
That's the idea of getting it around.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2012 21:41:56 GMT
Robin Sean could alway post internal photos, which a review magazine is likely to do anyway.The designations of critical components could be blurred using Photoshop. I think it more likely to be sealed because it is passing through many hands.New or better ideas are fairly thin on the ground these days with conventional amplifiers, It is more how the well known topologies are implemented. idoubt very much that the amplifiers for sale would have anything more than the standard assembly methods with Torx scews or similar. Regards Alex
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2012 21:52:30 GMT
When coming to a site well know for DIY, Robin, there are people who can reverse engineer the product. He's not a hobbyist.
However, he's willing to send the amp out on a 30 day try before you buy basis and on this occasion, try even if you aren't buying.
He must feel that DIY'ers with (presumably) good ears might be able to hear that it does in fact sound pretty good.
If you can't tell the difference between a cheap CMoy and an expensive one, then buy the cheap one I guess. The Zigis is a prime example.
He's also made a cheaper version of the amp with cheaper components so that anyone who believes that there's no difference between good value cheap components and better have a cheaper option too.
I would say a completely anonymous listen is pretty open for a retailer. I don't remember $lee doing this for instance. He had What Hi Fi behind him though!!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2012 21:53:28 GMT
rowuk, IF you buy you will buy based on what your ears tell you about the sound rather than what your eyes may or may not tell you about what's in the box, surely? No amount of outside opinions will count for anything against what you hear for yourself so why not get your name on Ian's list? What's to lose? Dave.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2012 22:05:41 GMT
The amplifier uses only the best quality components - a brand new JJ Electronics E88CC valve is provided with every HA10, which we found gives significantly better performance than some of the cheap Chinese-made valves. The HA10 SE also uses a genuine ALPS Blue volume pot, audiophile grade resistors in the signal path (not just some cheap off-the-shelf generic metal film resistors), and for the input audio signal capacitors we use some high-end film input caps from Solen (a big step up from the original Wimas we used). And even a gold-plated ceramic valve socket! We also use a pair of the same high quality regulators to control the class A MOSFET operation that we use in our reference level DC2 PSU. There are many other high-end parts in place, but of course we don't want to give too much away here!
If anyone would like to hear it, just pm me.
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Post by sean on Mar 11, 2012 23:23:28 GMT
Hello Rowuk,
I never claimed that I have a 'unique' design (it does have some little quirks to it though), but the amount of time and research that went into its design and subsequent tweaking was tremendous, to extract every last drop of performance from it. Note that I use top-quality components in it (see one of my above posts for just some of the parts I use), better than you will find in almost all other designs in this price region, so you actually get more for your money than with many other headphone amps in this price range.
I am not keen on people dissecting it and producing 'bootleg' copies of it for DIY assembly or otherwise, as I am sure you can appreciate, hence the superglue precaution for the demo unit that will be passed around for people to try out with no obligation to buy - note that not many other manufacturers would provide this service, as it is effectively costing me one amplifier to provide the service (the amp will never be sold, it will exist as a dedicated demo unit from now on). Also, when you compare the HA10 to similarly-priced products from competitors, you will find it performs excellently - it is great value for money. Like Ian said, go and take the lid off a $lee or MF amp if you want to see what sort of quality they put in their amps, and compare it to the list of parts that I use.
I use high quality external PSUs for my HA10s because the SMPS design is very poor, and it simply does not represent good value for money, its sonic perfomance is that poor. I could provide a cheap SMPS with the HA10 and increase the price by say £5, but that would not realise the tru potential of the unit so I do not recommend it. On my website I even give details of the PSU so that you can use you own SMPS PSU if you really want to save money - now tell me that is not reasonable, I do try to help people out as best I can.
All power regulation is done off-board of the HA10, as per my design philosophy to keep noise away from the signal. The JLH board is protected by intellectual property rights, if you were not aware, so I do not use this in my products (although the output from my DC1 and DC2 linear supplies is so clean that I didn't find one to make any audible difference when I did try one out)
Hope this answers some of your queries - I invite you to join the list of people that are going to try out the demo HA10 SE that Ian is kindly organising, and I would very much look forward to hearing any comments you have on its sound quality.
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Post by sean on Mar 12, 2012 11:18:28 GMT
Alex is correct BTW - the HA10s built for sale to individuals (rather than the demo unit) will not be superglued up, you will be free to dismantle and tinker to your heart's content. And you can even return it to me for repair if you break it, for a small fee of course.
If anyone would like to see a photo of the inside of a HA10 SE, then I will post one up here later today for all to see and you can then discuss it to your heart's content.
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Post by sean on Mar 12, 2012 21:57:38 GMT
Hopefully that will have worked - i've taken the photo from a strategic angle and covered some bits up for good measure. Let the wild speculation begin! Attachments:
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2012 22:42:24 GMT
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Post by XTRProf on Mar 13, 2012 6:49:20 GMT
When I first heard the prototype HA10 amp I had only just bought Frans' CH Amp (which Sean built for me) but I was so impressed with the HA10 I had to have it (anybody want a nicely run in CH Amp? ) . Nope, I don't want the CHAmp. But are you saying the HA10 sounds better than the CHAmp? I wouldn't be surprised though. Just share your inner feeling about them, will you? I just want to know. Frans, sorry, man! No hard feeling, ok .................. Just the truth and nothing but the truth!
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Post by XTRProf on Mar 13, 2012 6:59:09 GMT
When coming to a site well know for DIY, Robin, there are people who can reverse engineer the product. He's not a hobbyist. Well, in electronics design, there are just so many ways a design can be done. Especially so for amplifiers except for the newer class D which is just emerging. So what Rowuk is trying to say is that there is really generally no new grounds that can be broken except to up the ante in parts and reliability. Reliabilty is just by changing the voltage and current as well as up the part specs. How you know. The design may be based on a collection of posted modifications that were discussed in all the DIY bulletins. So cannot be claimed to be original for sure. Else, if it's so unique, he can apply for a patent that will last for about 20 years on the design, right? Just think about it, a shared tube for stereo and mosfet outputs. Hmm, sounds familiar like Frans had said. So let your brains work and I will not comment further on this as I like Sean. I always go for the truth and nothing but the truth. So God help me!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2012 7:53:50 GMT
The CHAmp is (I mention this as the first line in my article) not THE ultimate amp nor do I claim that it sounds better or worse than other SS amps. It is highly configurable (bandwidth, resistance, gain) and very safe to use (power limited to 200mW and protection), that's what's different. So is an opinion based on preference of individuals instead of 'absolute' truth in this case. Because MANY people prefer 'tube sound' over SS sound it is very likely the same people will prefer the HA10/Sunrise/Indeed/Bravo/all tube amps over any SS design. There really is nothing weird about preferring nice distortion over no distortion. The REASON someone could prefer a tube/hybrid over a SS is the ADDED 'distortion;' of the tube. A triode that is not in feedback and a source follower that is also NOT in a feedback loop will have lots (and I mean a factor 100 to 1000) more added 'distortion'. The fact that this distortion is sounding very pleasant (as the ADDED signals resemble the harmonics of natural instruments closely) makes these amps sound 'better' to many people. So Dave (I know Ian does also) may well have a preference to these added harmonics over an amplifier that adds nothing (or at least so little it will be hard to hear). As long as it enhances the listening experience I am all for it (this is where I differ from NwAvGuy and call him my 'evil' twin) and also design tube and transformer based amps as well. The circuit appears to be a 'spin-off' of the Sunrise/Indeed/Bravo in general (capacitor coupled grid input with a 1uF cap similar to 12AU7/Sunrise) with a selectable heater configuration (G2/G3/Sunrise) and perhaps the LM317 is replaced by a MOSFET current source (MOSFET, transistor + resistors) judging from Sean's description. The power supply cap is not a single big cap with just a small decoupling cap added (Bravo/Indeed/Sunrise) but appears to consist of a typical Mike construction (a few caps in parallel with increasing values) that is found in many DIY schematics. Specs (AFAICG): Output resistance: 10 Ohm. Max output voltage: 5V RMS (similar to Sunrise in 10 Ohm setting). Distortion: < 0.4% depending on output level (similar to Sunrise in cap coupled setting or Sunrise-II). frequency range: similar to the Sunrise/modded G2/modded Bravo (or smaller depending on the designers choice of MOSFET). The heater configuration appears to differ from the Bravo/Indeed and is probably more similar to the Sunrise in the sense a regulator or a big resistor is used. (so no crosstalk nor asymmetric behavior as in the Indeed/Bravo) There appears to be no output relay so 'on-off' plop reduction is probably done 'G3 style'. Bias adjustment is done in a similar was as in the Sunrise (by adjusting the tubes anode current source) opposite the normally found cathode arrangement (Bravo/Indeed). Aside from these things and layout (star earth ?) quite similar to the already existing hybrids with some small changes. More similar to the Sunrise than Indeed/Bravo's but in any case NOT a 100% clone of the mentioned amps. Just my speculation though. I know Sean from some e-mails and know this amp will be part of his livelyhood so will not post a reverse engineered schematic that will probably be very close to this design.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2012 8:06:42 GMT
They could most likely get the best of both worlds, the colouration, and the long life and reliability,without regular expensive component replacement, simply by building a C.H.Amp and replacing the volume control with an LDR volco. ;D
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Post by XTRProf on Mar 13, 2012 8:09:23 GMT
So is an opinion based on preference of individuals instead of 'absolute' truth in this case. Because MANY people prefer 'tube sound' over SS sound it is very likely the same people will prefer the HA10/Sunrise/Indeed/Bravo/all tube amps over any SS design. There really is nothing weird about preferring nice distortion over no distortion. Well, it's still the truth and nothing but the truth if he writes he pefer the HA10 to the CHAmp. So God don't need to help us here.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2012 8:15:10 GMT
Or the AK-HA with a tube buffer added and perhaps the output resistor reduced to 10 Ohm ? ;D
Distortion (read: added harmonics) .... to add or not to add... that's the question.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2012 8:46:24 GMT
I still think that the idea of a configurable amp is a really good idea. It gives you some control over the outcome which most amps don't give unless there are tone controls in the way which tend to be rather crude.
The C.H.A.M.P. has a much more subtle thing going on and is built to enable people to match the amp to the headphone more closely. There is something really attractive about that.
The HA10- has a lot more extension than the Bravo types. Never listened for crosstalk but will on the second one. That's something I take for granted in modern amps.
I'll post as soon as I hear it.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2012 11:29:41 GMT
That's perhaps why I liked it so much, Frans. The Sunrise is top of my pile along with V2. (Both tubes) There is something really musical about that amp that I really like a lot. Dave, how much are you selling the CHAMP for? Are you serious? I would have thought it was a pretty good option with the ability to configure it slightly. I could hear differences with different output impedances for sure with Fran's clever little device. I would have thought that the CHAMP has a lot going for it tbh. That's one of its big strengths imo. I presume all kits have gone out now? That's one thing with Frans - he tries to encompass everyone you see!! That's why the other one is the EVIL twin from the West and he's the Twinkly one from the East. Don't forget - if you'd like a listen, pm me.
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Post by covenant on Mar 16, 2012 20:15:55 GMT
I said I would post a few words on SQ once I received my Orthodynamic headphones. They have now turned up and are plugged into the HA10. My headphone listening in the past has all been done using cheap Far East amps so the HA10 was a revelation both in musical ability and freedom from crosstalk. It has a captivating sound, which, to me seems totally accurate, it doesn't exaggerate high or low frequencies yet it is capable of extremes if that is how the music is recorded. If you take headphone listening seriously then you owe it to yourself to try the HA10 out.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2012 21:46:22 GMT
I think it's a good amp too. The lack of interest surprises me tbh.
I've been away for most of this week and arrived home today where I unpacked the HA10 and the se plus all three types of power supplies.
Sean sent me the lot! So I'll be having a good listen and I'll post pictures soon.
The big power supply is a really impressive beast to say the least. It's big and weighty and it also suits the look of the amp. Sean has also sent me a cheapy power supply so that'll be interesting.
I'll have tocheck which version I'm sending out. I think Sean was willing to let the se do the rounds with the smaller power supply. (Not the cheapy one) so it'll be a lovely combo.
I have to say, this is a very generous offer by Sean, allowing a cracker like this to do the rounds. I wish I still had the Slee Solo to compare it with since they seem to be on a level as far as price goes.
I'll probably give one a go tomorrow if I'm not still feeling crackered.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2012 13:53:08 GMT
I had a listen this morning to both versions of the HA10. I also tried all three of Sean's power supplies. I have to say, I really like the build quality of the amps. Similar to $lee boxes but with the tube poking out of the top. The 'se' has a cage over the valve. Beautifully smooth volume control which seems to have excellent tracking down to the bottom. The Power supplies are hefty. The big 'un really is hard core!! Bigger than the amp and extremely weighty. A crafty design also means that you can change the wire coming from it to plug into anything you want that takes the same voltage. I really like that and the cable that Sean makes is superb. I'll post pictures if we get some decent light down here. It's nasty at the moment and I'm trying to avoid flashgun 'cos they look horrible. There are slight differences between the HA10 and HA10se in that the se is a tad more 'focused' both in the bass and treble region. It seems to have a tad more depth and a more clean soundning top and when Sean mentioned 80% performance, I guess it's not a bad estimate tbh. I like both. On a budget - the HA10 with just a cheap power supply isn't too bad. It's the supplies that add to the cost and they do add to the amount of impact/slam that the amp gives. You could put your own on them as well I guess. I've spent this morning listening on an HD650 and my goodness it has some clout. I listened to YELLO - 'Touch'. Real impact and clean top with not a trace of hardness. The HA10 is slightly softer sounding - not in volume but in attack. The main difference is cheaper components!! They DO sound slightly different. Or I have an imagination playing havoc with my head. (again!!) I could easily live with both although I have to admit, I REALLY like the HA10se with the big power supply. It's the business. That's the one I'd really want. The funny thing about how the amp deals with headphones - if this is true, then Frans may know why. I've switched to an AT M50 because I'm used to using them as a monitor headphone along with the Beyer DT150. Both are non fatiguing at high volume and so ideal for work in a studio. The M50 has a tendency to rumble in the low area on many home amps. However, I don't get it to the same extent at work where there is some powerful gear. This headphone, attached to the HA10se has more bass control than my others and yet, the Senn HD650 is extremely powerful down there. I expected the M50 to really rumble, but it doesn't. The bass is powerful but doesn't hang around. I know that the M50 has a much lower impedance and frankly, I expected a lot more overhang in the bass. Not so. Really well controlled - even though an M50 doesn't really need a powerful amp behind it. This suggests that the amp has a very quick response. I kind of tried the M50 expecting the HA10se to make it more muddy since this headphone is prone to that kind of thing. I would say that both the HD650 and M50 (at the other end of the impedance spectrum) sound really speaker like in presentation. Weighty and also pretty open sounding. The M50 surprised me since it has always sounded better at work than home but it is actually very good on the HA10 with no noise coming through either. (Being low impedance cans) As far as the design goes, Sean will do them in black as well as silver. I quite like the look of the silver with a black knob, but I really fancy the look of the black ones. I think Sean would make any configuration you want. I don't know whether this is possible, but that power supply (the big one) is awesome. Hefty, powerful thing. I wonder whether it would be possible to have some kind of arrangement where it can power up more than one thing? ie have it wired up for two or even three amps. Not at the same time, but have one supply down on the bottom shelf or floor which sends power to more than one device. It's a beauty. Trouble is, these big, clean delivering supplies don't come cheap. The only one that I have which is on the same level is the se version of the Little Pinkie which is my pride and joy. Due to costs of materials, it's just not possible to make these things cheap. Both are way ahead of that nasty $lee power supply with its truly grotty, grey power lead that hardens over time. I was amazed at the cost of that when I saw it. Would I pay for one? Yes, I would. It is a lovely amp and has a lot of power available. It's on the same kind of level as the $lee in looks and I'd say power but it has that gorgeous valve distortion that Frans turns his nose up at!! If you are UK based and would like to hear it, let me know. In the meantime, I'm going to do some more listening. Trouble is, it's so nice,I don't want to send it out .......
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2012 14:32:27 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2012 15:05:14 GMT
;D You know, Frans, I didn't see that amp!!! You should have sent me one to review!!!!! You'd be a millionaire. It's a pity you're so far away. (or I'm so far away) I never realised you did a hybrid as well. The CHAMP seems a good idea to me and that looks like a big power Sunrise with CHAMP output options. The 'Champrise'? When's it going out? The HA10se has a nice weighty sound and I tried the M50 thinking that it would go over the top, but it's fine. It's the power supply that really adds to the cost I guess. Most people see them as a box that just gives the power out, but there's a subtle difference that they can give that's taken for granted and not really costed into the design/price. When you think - A Bravo with a little Pinkie, is expensive!!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2012 16:51:44 GMT
There is only one of it and I like it so much it's not travelling . Might be best to keep this thread for the HA10 though.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2012 17:31:28 GMT
There is only one of it and I like it so much it's not travelling . Might be best to keep this thread for the HA10 though. Have you got a large garden to land a helicopter?
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