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Post by dalethorn on Feb 28, 2012 18:50:43 GMT
I definitely hear what you're saying. My Shure 1840 is definitely more forgiving than the HD-800. But I'm not going to even guess whether the HD-800 is more accurate or true to the music. I'll just shut up for awhile and enjoy the 1840 some more. Then if I find out six months from now that it's a bad headphone, I might have to go into hiding.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2012 19:48:16 GMT
Why did you ditch the HD800 in the end ? (serious question by the way) You did seem to like it but what made you get rid of it. The 1840 had my interest as I like open headphones. Owned the SRH840 for a while but found it resembling the HD650 too much in signature plus the clamping force/pads were not ideal to me. The 940 was a tad too 'flat and bright' to me (much like HD800 sound signature wise) but much more comfy. Would have loved something RIGHT in between. Lows and mids leaning (but not similar to) towards the 840 and highs/clarity leaning towards (but not similar to) the 940. Very detailed and technically very good (T1, HD800 and SRH940) by the way. The 1840 seems a good deal but won't know till I actually hear it. I have the distinct feeling I will find it bass-light similar to 940 as they are both clearly rolled off. Same with HD700 I hope it's a nice cross between 650 and 800 to me. Everyone is free to change their opinion about headphones after a while. They are just like women. Once you have lived with them for a while you really get to know them. Whether you still like them later on says a lot about 'quality'.
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Post by dalethorn on Feb 28, 2012 21:01:19 GMT
Since you asked I'll tell you something I never told anyone. I liked the 800, and with a better amp it was really good with good tracks. But I don't like much listening in a fixed location with a desk rig. I do like to explore new music that way and run tests that way, but when I get to purely listening I want to be able to walk around or even scoot the chair across the floor, whatever. Not because I'm doing other things - it's just my habit not to have more than one wire to contend with. So this month I donated the 800 and also a Leica X1 to some people who sold them to fund other items. You have the 1840 right - like a 940 but not bright - it's perfect I think, even excellent on recordings that don't need any forgiving. But it's $700 USD so I just can't be sure I should recommend it very strongly until some more good reviews come in. I do get the sense that the HD-700 will have a noticeably stronger bass than the 1840. Even if it were "just as good" as the HD-800, it would better the 1840 in the bass. $1000 is serious money, but I can't complain - I think Shure and Sennheiser are making real improvements to the listening experience, and I'm thankful that it doesn't cost $2000.
Speaking of women, someone told me once they took their date home, and she asked "Will you respect me in the morning?" And he said "Don't worry about that - I don't respect you now."
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2012 22:00:40 GMT
I have the same problem with my ortho with it's dedicated amp. I have to be in one placed connected to the mains (not battery operated). Unbelievable good sound but only for stationary use. Don't like to be tied to one place (PC or home rig) The DT1350 fixed that issue and also ended my search for the ultimate portable HP, not liking in-ears the choices were small. It's not equally good but comes close enough. Looking forward to auditioning lots of other HP's (including 1840 and HD700 as well as other HP's) but only reaching deep in the pockets (HE-6, LCD2-2, some Stax or ESP950) will beat what I have to my ears. Don't feel the difference in price (homemade cheap ortho) can be justified. Had a hard time justifying the DT1350 already. Still, to make the likes of HE-6 and LCD2 shine I would have to build myself a very powerful portable amp even more to drive electrostatics. Drag around batteries e.t.c.... nah The weight of these HP's is another drawback for going 'portable' though. The ortho I have is light as a feather and very comfy as it is made in a DT990 housing.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2012 23:15:10 GMT
I have been listening to my HE-6+EF5 combination almost exclusively for the past two weeks now Frans, and i must say that i am now a converted ortho fan.
To my ears they add a sense of realism to the music that none of my other HP`s can match, which i find quiet intoxicating.
Tracks which are really dynamic, eg, Mark Knopflers (Speedway at Nazareth) just show how good these HP`s deliver dynamic bursts of power, amazing really.
I must say that this EF5 Amp is a real cracker, obviously designed around the HE-6`s, and produces fantastic results in standard form,(OP275 op-amp) although i am awaiting another of the LME 49990 op-amps to see if that can improve the SQ still further.
Mick.
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XTRProf
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Post by XTRProf on Feb 29, 2012 2:55:34 GMT
I'll just shut up for awhile and enjoy the 1840 some more. Then if I find out six months from now that it's a bad headphone, I might have to go into hiding. That's not true when you say good it's good as that was first or early impression. For a holistic review of anything, we must have that something for some time and live with it. After that, we can DEFINITELY say whether it's good to you, at least, or not. That's the reason why there are so much disagreement between the subjectivists and the objectivists. Subjectivists tend to live with an equipment for sometime and know it's characters well. Objectivists measure them and conclude the sound from the measurements on the spot. How can that be to an accurate description of what an equipment can sound? So you don't need to be a hermit 6 months later.
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XTRProf
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Post by XTRProf on Feb 29, 2012 2:59:06 GMT
I have been listening to my HE-6+EF5 combination almost exclusively for the past two weeks now Frans, and i must say that i am now a converted ortho fan. To my ears they add a sense of realism to the music that none of my other HP`s can match, which i find quiet intoxicating. Tracks which are really dynamic, eg, Mark Knopflers (Speedway at Nazareth) just show how good these HP`s deliver dynamic bursts of power, amazing really. Ah, good, you are having the same opinion as me from my short short experience with Ortho. They are in the highend class, right, instead of very good sound class.
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Post by dalethorn on Feb 29, 2012 3:46:33 GMT
Subjectivists tend to live with an equipment for sometime and know it's characters well. Objectivists measure them and conclude the sound from the measurements on the spot. How can that be to an accurate description of what an equipment can sound? So you don't need to be a hermit 6 months later. Yeah, that probably won't happen. I'm listening to a lot of techno and soundtrack music with the DT-1350 now, and most everything else with the 1840. This is probably the most satisfying combination of headphones I've used so far, since I never enjoyed this variety with just one headphone. I know somebody was saying that already, so there you go.
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Post by johnwillett on Mar 1, 2012 11:31:03 GMT
I had a good listen to the HD 700 at the Bristol Hi-Fi show last weekend.
My own rig is the HD 800 with the Grace m903 (recently upgraded from the m902b).
At the show the HD 700 and HD 800 were both side by side and both were connected to the same source via a Grace m903 DAC/headphone amp.
Comparing the two the 700 was no way as good as the 800 (though a good step up from the 600/650).
In comparison to the 800 I found the 700 "warmer" with a brighter top end and a bit less open and revealing than the 800.
After hearing the 800 I would not want to go down to the 700. But - I found the 700 a good step up from the 600/650.
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Post by dalethorn on Mar 1, 2012 14:58:59 GMT
In comparison to the 800 I found the 700 "warmer" with a brighter top end and a bit less open and revealing than the 800. This is not good news. When Shure came out with the 1840 they reduced some of the brightness that people complained about with the 940. I thought sure that Sennheiser would make the 700 just slightly darker than the 800, since that was what so many people were asking for.
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Post by johnwillett on Mar 3, 2012 10:52:56 GMT
In comparison to the 800 I found the 700 "warmer" with a brighter top end and a bit less open and revealing than the 800. This is not good news. When Shure came out with the 1840 they reduced some of the brightness that people complained about with the 940. I thought sure that Sennheiser would make the 700 just slightly darker than the 800, since that was what so many people were asking for. Have a listen for yourself. The 700 was certainly "warmer" to my ears - but many people felt it was a bit brighter in the top end. BUT - the HD 800 had been used for quite a while and the HD 700 was brand new, fresh out of the box, and not run in at all which could explain part of this.
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elysion
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Post by elysion on Mar 4, 2012 13:16:24 GMT
I was waiting for something that could be described as HD600/650 successor for a long time. Regarding the costs, the HD800 plays is in entirely new league compared to the HD600/650. The price was certainly prohibitive for me, the HD800 was simply above the price range that is acceptable for me - at least without hearing it with my own ears. The HD700 is still quite costly and maybe still too costly for me. I'm very curious to hear it somewhen. But it really doesn't hurry at the moment. I've lost my job last week and at least for the next few months, I won't buy ANY luxuries. I don't know exactly what material they have used for the HD700, but if "plastic" describes the same type of carbon parts used with the HD600/650, then I think it can't be really bad. I have also an old HD580 which has not the carbon parts that my HD650 has. It's IMO quite a difference! Even my HD580 is still in very good condition and I've bought them in 1998 IIRC. The HD580's have been my main headphones for over a decade and have been used really a lot. Today, they have a HD650 cable, new earpads and also new HD650-style headband cushion. They still sound very good. It probably requires more time and more listening from various people to classify the HD700. I absolutely agree with Frans: There're not "best headphones", but there's a favourite for everyone. There are so many factors that make listening fun for a specific person. Many of these factors are individual. Meanwhile, I enjoy listening to my current headphone stash. My current favourite are the DT 990 Pro's, but I really love also my HD650's (and HD580's) and my other 'phones. johnwillett: A couple of RG members (me included) made the experience that the HD650's sound especially good with the Neco amp. The Neco Portable V2 sounds very good, but the MOSFET/BOSSFET V2/V2.1 sound even better with the Senn's. It's important to use the AD8610 opamps with the Neco's, otherwise the effect won't be the same. I'm really interested to hear your opinion about the HD650's with the Neco/AD8610. Perhaps Mick or another UK member could borrow you a Neco amp. I would send you one of my amps, but transport from Switzerland is quite costly and I have to put as much aside as possible at the moment since I have lost my job. IIRC, Mick did test the Neco's also with the HD800, but I don't remember his findings at the moment. Maybe it's also a idea to try the HD700's with the Neco/AD8610.
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Post by dalethorn on Mar 4, 2012 23:36:06 GMT
"It probably requires more time and more listening from various people to classify the HD700. I absolutely agree with Frans: There're not "best headphones", but there's a favourite for everyone. There are so many factors that make listening fun for a specific person. Many of these factors are individual."
I don't think this is going to come down to preferences or factors of taste per se. I enjoy a wide variety of headphone signatures as do many people, so there is no one favorite or even one that's more fun than the others. I believe people will find the factors that make the difference with the 700 (assuming they are OK with the looks and comfort) are going to be what excites them with certain tracks, what bothers them with certain tracks, and what tracks with the 700 that give them the best long-term satisfaction, which may not be exciting or fun, but provide the best insight into the music and performance. The Shure 1840 I'm using now is a good example of a headphone that (for me) doesn't have much of a fun factor, and strays a bit away from my ideal preferences in more than one area, but the subtle way it reveals details within what often seems like a bland presentation (yes, bland) is fascinating, and continues to draw me into the music. Or, (and this is scary) it might be in that blandness that I'm trying harder to hear those details and that extra effort makes the difference. Whatever it is, I don't think at $1000 USD the HD-700 can afford to be a "fun" headphone the way a $350 headphone can be, since you can buy 3 of those and enjoy the variety.
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Post by pete on Mar 19, 2012 23:41:10 GMT
Is it just me or do these look incredibly ugly?
I think for the price they cost I might as well get the real deal & get the HD800.
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Post by UzminiNu on Mar 20, 2012 3:37:51 GMT
Is it just me or do these look incredibly ugly? I think for the price they cost I might as well get the real deal & get the HD800. +1 they look awful..
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XTRProf
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Post by XTRProf on Mar 20, 2012 4:54:22 GMT
So the HD800 looks great?
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Post by dalethorn on Mar 20, 2012 5:34:41 GMT
The HD800 is weird enough, but the HD700 looks even weirder. Many years ago when Ford Motor co. produced a car called the Edsel, a critic said it looked like an Oldsmobile sucking a lemon. In a way I think the HD700 suffers similarly - like a HD800 squeezed slightly the wrong direction. But the comments made at Headfonia about "grain free" sound, even better in that respect than the HD800 (according to Headfonia) - that's really intriguing.
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Post by UzminiNu on Mar 20, 2012 8:58:07 GMT
So the HD800 looks great? OK, Sennheiser suck more with their corporate greed asking THIS amount of money for every new headphone they release.
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funk1969
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Post by funk1969 on Mar 20, 2012 9:04:17 GMT
Just get the PX200 II or HD250 Linear II and call it a day...
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elysion
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Post by elysion on Mar 27, 2012 19:00:41 GMT
Kaspars is IMO right. The price is often the biggest problem with high-end Sennheiser 'phones. The quality is good, but compared to Beyer 'phones, they are quite costly.
I like my HD580's and HD650's, but at the moment I can buy at least TWO DT 990 Pro's for that price. In fact, it's more like 2 1/2 DT 990 Pro's for just one HD650. The DT 990 Pro's sound better and spare parts are also much cheaper, espcially the earpads.
HD800's are IMO a plain rip-off. Some newer Beyer models are also costly, for example the T1. Beyer also asks more for their "Edition" series, while I'm (personally) sure that the "Pro" series is overall better (and cheaper). The DT 990's are a good example: "Pro" is great and fairly cheap, "Edition" isn't bad but lacks in a couple of points (and costs more).
Sennheiser also keeps the cost high over a long sales period, while AKG and Beyer often drop the prices of the older models after selling them for a couple of years.
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Post by dalethorn on Mar 27, 2012 20:19:20 GMT
I had the HD-600 and 650 for several years, and the HD-800 for 2-1/2 years. Although the 800 is enormously expensive, it does things that the 600 and 650 don't do - good audiophile things. If it didn't, it would be a ripoff. But since it does, it's more like a value advisory.
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xerxes
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Post by xerxes on Mar 27, 2012 20:23:42 GMT
elysion, could you explain the differences in sound between the HD650 and DT990 pro.
I have a pair of HD650s and fancy something else an alternative and I keep looking at the DT990 pro.
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elysion
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Post by elysion on Apr 5, 2012 20:21:45 GMT
elysion, could you explain the differences in sound between the HD650 and DT990 pro. I have a pair of HD650s and fancy something else an alternative and I keep looking at the DT990 pro. Ian has described the DT 990 Pro's once as a cross between HD600's and a DT 770's. It's a rather accurate description IMO. Ian has also described the HD650's as the most speaker-like headphones that are available. I also agree fully with that. Of course, there are other points that are of interest: Personally, I like both the DT 990 Pro's and the HD650's. These 'phones are my favourites for extended listening sessions. Ear fatigue is absolutely inexistent with both. I hate headphones with a sharp treble (like many unmodded Superlux 'phones), both the DT 990 Pro's and the HD650's don't have such problems at all. The treble of the HD650's is rolled-off, some say they cut away a part of the upper treble. DT 990 Pro's have a more open treble, the treble itself is also a bit accentuated, but never gets sharp. The DT 990 Pro's are certainly the more musical headphones when compared with the HD650's. The treble and bass of the DT 990 Pro's are both emphasised but it doesn't feel like the sound is coloured. In fact, this brings live to the music. The HD650's are often referred to be coloured, especially in the bass. I can confirm that, but it's really a matter of the music if that is perceived as a problem. A big advantage of the HD650's is that they are very forgiving. You can play bad quality recordings through them, but you will still get good results. They are the exact opposite of the K701/702's which highlight every single flaw in a recording. The DT 990's are somewhere in between those 'phones, but I guess much closer to the HD650's than to the K701/K702's. There are at least two driver variants for the HD650's and the DT 990's have been also modified quite often, there are even a lot of impedance variants around. The DT 990 Pro's are currently only available with 250 Ohm drivers and I can recommend this model highly. I've had also the opportunity to test the DT 990 Editions (also with 250 Ohm's) and to me, there was no reason to go for the Editions. The Edition variant is not as rugged as the Pro variant and since there is less pressure on the earcups, the overall impression is a bit flater/lifeless compared to the Pro variant. I've preferred the Pro variant clearly and the increased pressure of the (Pro variant) earcups was absolutely no problem. It's still not a strong pressure. The DT 990 Pro's are the clear leader regarding the comfort. The round earcups feel much better than the oval shaped earcups of the HD650's. DT 990 Pro's are also the best value. They are much cheaper than the HD650's and also cheaper than the DT 990 Edition's. Even the Beyer spare parts (earpads for example) are much cheaper then the Sennheiser parts. It still like the HD650's very much though. The DT 990 Pro's are overall my preferred 'phones, but the HD650's are still very good allrounders for long listening sessions.
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Post by Seamus on Apr 5, 2012 21:17:49 GMT
The DT 990 Pro's seem like the best headphone bargain around at the moment, around £130 made in Germany and wide availability of reasonably priced spare parts so they should last for years. Given the positive things said about them here at the Grotto I'm going to have to get a pair. They should make a nice contrast to my K501's On the HD700 they really don't look like £6-700 worth. The quality of the plastics look a bit cheap for that money so a healthy profit margin for Sennheiser. Still it's all about the sound isn't it so if you like them enough then they're good value for you.
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xerxes
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Post by xerxes on Apr 6, 2012 12:43:48 GMT
Thanks elysion, It was the 250 Ohm 990 Pros I was interested in and from your description, I think I would like them. I like the HD650s very much, but fancy something a little different, but not too far away. If they were too different from the HD650s, I probably wouldn't like them at all. Like you, I don't like the treble to be too hot, in fact I seem to be very sensitive to sharp treble and find it very unpleaseant. I once had a pair of Sennheiser HD595s, Sennheisers "Grado like" headphones, and found them unbearable and have stayed away from anything described as "detailed" since. I think I'm going to have a headphone clear out and maybe get a few pennies towards some 990s.
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