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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2011 17:28:39 GMT
Hi All I thought that it may be interesting and fun to start a thread on DIY cables. I’ve been dabbling in DIY cables for quite a few years now and found that I can do much better in terms of sound per £ than the commercial outfits.the nice thing about cables is that most commercial designs can be easily reproduced. YUP any one can make a pretty decent pair of cables with very little effort and time involved. Commercial cables can be pretty expensive and offer poor VFM when compared to DIY ones. When you think that very few cable manufacturers produce their own cables and tend to buy in from large wholesalers, well we can do that and we can do it cheaper and better. ‘’Most’’ people at some time or another do a little experimenting with Interconect cables and find one of two things. 1) They make a difference to the sound 2) They make no difference what so ever to the sound. Both views are fine here So rather than going for my usual twisted triple solid core silver and bullet plugs it might be more fun to see what can be done for less than £20.i’ve also noticed some screened stranded Silver on copper PTFE for £3.50 per meter which I’ve used before and sounds pretty good for the price so I’ll dig up a link for that also. A sort of RG cheap IC challenge. So I’ve been scanning through eBay and found a few likely candidates. For the cable itself I’ve gone for the above with it’s slightly odd description but the material value looks pretty good at £10 for ten meters of solid core silver on copper in PTFE tubing. www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10M-Teflon-OCC-Silver-Plated-Single-Wire-Cable-/310346236289?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item484213c181For the RCA plugs I’ve tried to keep the cost down and gone for www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Neutrik-NYS373-Professional-RCA-Phono-Plugs-x4-/150669729024?pt=UK_Computing_CablesConnectors_RL&hash=item23149d9d00I like Neutric plugs and they offer quality at an affordable price. I’ve found that squeezing the price to low on RCA’s is just not worth the agro of breaking parts especialy the types with split outer rings which seem to break pretty easily. So I could have gone cheaper but I like my cables to last. My main aim here is to keep prices sane and encourage experimentation. So now I’m waiting on the cable to arrive from HK but in the mean time we can have a chat about cables. What we like What we don’t like I know it can be a subject that can polerize opinions pretty starkly but just to be clear. ALL OPINIONS WELCOME For or against specialist cables and everything in between. If you think it’s all a waste of time please be polite but say so. If anyone else has experience of DIY cables I’d love to hear from you and have the benefit of experience gained. If we have a good discussion then people can make up their own minds about cables and some may even try for themselves. I’ve also made speaker cables so hopefully we can chat on that also. I’ll do a pictorial when I get to build the said cables up and maybe do a post around to allow others to get to try them in their own set up. I’m here to learn Which is cool. Take care
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2011 17:48:44 GMT
Hi Shaun, It's pretty amazing what you can put together cable-wise for just a few quid. For real cheapies I've always used noiseless microphone cables, in various guises. I have a preference for "psuedo balanced" configuration in standard copper (OFCC yadda yadda). For plugs at this level, anything that feels a little more substantial than bog-standard, with good provision for soldering the cores away from each other. The last lot I made up cost about 5 or 6 pounds per set to make and, IMHO, out perfomed commercial cables costing up to £100! If we can suss a design that out-performs my commercial favourite without going tooooo silly on price, "Nordosts Blue Heaven", to my ears, then that would be wicked
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2011 18:00:00 GMT
Hi Shaun
Those are the plugs I bought recently. They are great value for money and have a soft rubber 'boot' that finishes them off nicely. Very tight grip on the phono socket too.
Syd
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Post by pandapops on Nov 23, 2011 5:35:58 GMT
Cheap good sounding material: solid earth earth core from that stiff house wiring cable, the grey stuff that has two solid core insulated runs and the solid core loose. Add some heat shrink and you'd come in well under a tenner. The insulated cores are too thick for the plug and too stiff to bend into shape.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2011 12:00:14 GMT
Hi Chris
yes I've used low noise mic cable before with good results.
any chance of a link to the stuff you use?
Nordost Blue heaven is pretty good stuff but was manufactured for the aerospace industry so may be hard to find off the reel.
however
i was using the same cables before i tried the mundorf stuff which is a little expensive for the cheapo but IMHO equaled the Nordost in some area's and outperformed it in others.
i have spotted a few DIY designs for mono filament cables so I'll try and dig them up.
Hi Syd
yes those plugs are pretty good and I've used them quite often in the past. i mostly use bullet plugs now but that would push the cost up tooo much.
Hi Pandapops
I've only used solid twin and earth for speaker cables but found like you that it was too stiff to be useful also the resistance means short runs only.
my first experience with solid core cable was DNM.
my Friend brought some for me to have a listen to and once I'd finished laughing (thin copper used and unusual construction) i thought that it sounded pretty darn good.
good enough to make me want to look a little further solid core wise.
CAT5 is another good cheapy
just strip of the outer sheath and twist two strands for GND and one for hot together. keep the cable length sane (1M), solder some plugs on and good to go.
take care
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2011 12:23:16 GMT
I reported a while back that I'd bought a good few metres of Van Damme instrument cable... still in it's bag on my office floor! Got it cia Ebay UK from myworld.ebay.co.uk/pcarena-bristolSure it'll be fine though.... when I get around to it. My eyesight's getting a bit beyond soldering now and have to wear specs-on-specs lol. Derek
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2011 12:49:59 GMT
I buy it locally from a musical instrument shop, I'll have to look at the cable to get the name/model...
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Will
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Post by Will on Nov 23, 2011 12:54:46 GMT
Hi Shaun, Nice idea for a thread! Your mention of DNM cables www.dnm.co.uk/ caught my eye, as it was suggested to me as a good match to some Eichmann bullets. Do you have a link to that mundorf cable you mention?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2011 13:30:23 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2011 13:32:49 GMT
Hi Shaun, Nice idea for a thread! Your mention of DNM cables www.dnm.co.uk/ caught my eye, as it was suggested to me as a good match to some Eichmann bullets. Do you have a link to that mundorf cable you mention? Hi Will yes the DNM cable really threw me as it looked so weedy and lacking in substance. unlike the sound which was clear clean and most surprisingly great bass. it got me thinking on their minimum metal philosophy (i had on of his pre's for a while phew what a great piece)which lead on to Eichmann bullets. the DNM design can be cloned pretty easily with clear tape and nice quality solid core copper or even silver. to be honest I've tried all sorts of cable construction: twisted pair mic cable DNM type braid (kimber style) screened unscreened TNT snake TNT sat cable Twisted triple I've tended to stick with the later as I've not really heard much difference between cable geometries. i don't use screened cable because I've never found much problem RF wise and it adds capacitance. i like making cables from scratch as it gives me the chance to choose my poison CAP, IND and RES wise. so I've just ended up going with a relatively simple construction method which I've found: works provides good structural integrity stops me doing the mental twist. however i do notice the most difference between construction materials (metals) and sheathing. i tend to go for PT FE for it's dielectric properties because capacitance is found on all cables. my thinking is if we a re building a capacitor (and we are with cables) then lets build a nice quality one. the Mundorf i get from hificollective (no connection to the company) and Nick is a nice knowledgeable guy with good ears. it's my fav cable but it's expensive but try finding a cable made from anything like that stuff and it starts to look cheaper. for me it's just fun and saves me loads of cash I'll dig up the link and here it is www.hificollective.co.uk/components/wire.htmltake care
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2011 13:39:26 GMT
Hi Chris well found but i use the 0.5mm stuff which works pretty well (cheaper toooo) with the bullets. hey I've just noticed that they do a twisted triple. I've not seen that before and it's not much extra price wise. mmmm interesting Chris xmas is comming and i think that cable would give your Nordost a good run. take care
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2011 16:23:03 GMT
I dug out some oldies... These were replaced with... @shaun, I'm very tempted to give the Mundorf stuff a go. Is there a cheaper source for Eichmann Bullets?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2011 17:22:55 GMT
Hi Chris
Nice work
one of those cables spare for the great postal review circle?
The bullets seem to be a standard price but you could try eBay.
i think they are pretty good and worth the cash.
take care
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2011 14:26:10 GMT
Hi All Well the wire arrived from Honkers this morning so I thought I’d have a go at twisting them up to make some cables. A SOLID CORE SILVER ON COPPER TWISTED TRIPPLE PTFE TWO COLD ONE HOT. bit of a mouthful but i make all of my cables this way but there are other ways so any ideas welcome. First thing to mention with this type of cable is you need to order extra to allow for the twist. I usually add on about ¼ of the total desired length. So no elaborate equipment is needed as can be seen bellow Just add a soldering iron and DMM and good to go. Divide the cables X3 The first thing is to do the twist and if that goes well you won’t have to do the alligator or mashed potato. horses again I just clamp the cables in a chord less drill and hook the other end over a door handle or and other convenient (fixed item). Pull the cable out fairly tightly but no need to go crazy on that. Then twist but not too tightly, just enough to hold the cables together. When the cable is released from the drill chuck it’s going to want to twist back so release sloooowly gripping the cable to stop it whipping. So next I divide the cable into the desired length 2 x 1M in this case and pop about 5cm of heat shrink on the ends just to hold it all steady. Next at one end only strip the cable sheath and twist two bare ends together and tin. I use nice cardas solder for all of my soldering because it’s so nice to use and requires less heat than some. I usually use an available phono socket as a jig when I’m soldering cables as it avoids that Olli the octopus feeling of needing many hands. I also tin the plug connections before soldering the cable as this makes life easier. I try to use minimum solder for these joints. So that’s that. Just screw the body onto the plug and strip the other end of the cable and play find the hot lead with a DMM set to continuity in the following way. Once you have the ends sorted remember to slip the plug body over the cable before soldering the plug on to avoid frustration. So do the same for the other cable and job is jobbed. i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g433/shaun71/finishedcables.jpg[/IMG]So now comes the bit where I say ‘’I’ve just made the best IC’s in the world’’ well it ain’t so. I’ve had a listen and for the price yes they sound pretty good and easily comparable to most of the stuff I’ve heard in the £50-£70 price bracket commercially. But perfect no no no They have the tautness of sound that I really love about solid conductors. Clarity and detail are also very good But no match for the M’s So if I can do it well anyone can so have a go you may be surprised by the results you get. The total spend was around £15 so no bank buster and around 1 hour to make. Take care
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2011 14:29:14 GMT
and the finished cables look ok take care
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Will
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Post by Will on Nov 25, 2011 19:23:30 GMT
Hi Shaun,
Nice post!
Something straightforward for anyone to try, and quite a good result, knowing that it equals more expensive commercial cables. That's the best bit about diy for me!
I'd be very interested in how/if this same cable improves if you used an eichmann connector. I know it takes it out of the budget bargain territory, but would it be a 'silly-money' cable slayer?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2011 22:29:23 GMT
Hi Shaun, Nice post! Something straightforward for anyone to try, and quite a good result, knowing that it equals more expensive commercial cables. That's the best bit about diy for me! I'd be very interested in how/if this same cable improves if you used an eichmann connector. I know it takes it out of the budget bargain territory, but would it be a 'silly-money' cable slayer? Hay Will funny you should say that as i was wondering if you'd like to do the review. on the cables IMHO they are far from perfect but at the price I'm pretty happy with them. it would be nice to have another set of ears on them just out of interest.I'm reluctant to say tooo much about giants and their slaying as it's just as much about the rest of the system but IMHO cables can give the sound a nudge in a particular direction. i really got into home brew cables when the ones i wanted to try where way too expensive. i do think that something cheap like this gives people the opportunity to find out for themselves and not get burned by expensive rip offs. did you notice DNM use plasic bodied plugs? i may give some a try. I'll pop them in the post for an honest review if you have the time. I'd like your opinion. take care
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2011 23:04:14 GMT
Hi Chris Nice work one of those cables spare for the great postal review circle? The bullets seem to be a standard price but you could try eBay. i think they are pretty good and worth the cash. take care I'll have cop hold of some new plugs and make another set (blue ones from above). I can then send them out if you like!
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Post by freddypipsqueek on Nov 25, 2011 23:36:54 GMT
I have used the Mundorf 99%/1% (gold silver) which though not cheap (£40 pm) is very very good. Also good is the pink stuff on the same page from Hifi collective (£7 pm) and the silver foil (£13 per 1/2 meter) - I have used the 'pink stuff' to replace a ribbon cable in an amp with excellent results. I have tried WBT and Eichmann plugs which are (to me) are a waste of money - Neutrik as above seem very good or the profi-plug which nordost use on their cables are a marginally more expensive alternative, but better.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2011 0:24:25 GMT
Seriously guys, if you need to throw that kind of money at interconnects to get very high quality sound, then there is something seriously lacking in either your source or amplifier ! (both?) Alex P.S. Flame suit is on. ;D P.P.S. Wrap some Miracle swraps around them. Might even be cheaper ?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2011 0:35:32 GMT
I have used the Mundorf 99%/1% (gold silver) which though not cheap (£40 pm) is very very good. Also good is the pink stuff on the same page from Hifi collective (£7 pm) and the silver foil (£13 per 1/2 meter) - I have used the 'pink stuff' to replace a ribbon cable in an amp with excellent results. I have tried WBT and Eichmann plugs which are (to me) are a waste of money - Neutrik as above seem very good or the profi-plug which nordost use on their cables are a marginally more expensive alternative, but better. Hi FreddyPS yes i agree the Mundorf is my fav. I've used it just pretty much twisted as above and IMHO it's worth the expense as I'll never need to buy another. yes when i was thinking quality but inexpensive then Neutrik went straight to the top of the list. I've used their plugs in the past and know they are not going to break any time soon. the pink stuff I've used also and as you say it's great for internal wiring and IC's. it's good stuff for the cash and I've spotted some similar stuff on eBay. I'll see if i can find a link. the silver foil looks interesting but the only concern I'd have with that is capacitance. I'd still be interested in trying some out though (just in case) I've tried copper foil speaker cables but did not really take to them. interesting thoughts on the bullets and WBT and point taken that not everybody is going to agree on that. I've used Hificollective off and on for a long time and always found the service top rate. had some nice TJ300B mesh plates off him once and they came in a big bomb proof box. any thoughts or designs you may have would be most welcome and it would be nice to have more ways of doing things. I'll be going through my back cataloger and posting some links. i found one for solid core silver speaker cables made with soft silver jewelers wire and PTFE sleeving which looked interesting and worth trying at some point. Hi Chris i was thinking on maybe getting a few bit's together and then posting them round for anyone who may want to have a listen and make their own minds up about how cables work in their own home set up (or not as the case may be) maybe I'll make up some of the nice pink stuff Freddy was talking about which would make a nice contrast to the other two. and all under £20. cool so yes if you have spare it would be great. take care
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2011 0:53:22 GMT
Seriously guys, if you need to throw that kind of money at interconnects to get very high quality sound, then there is something seriously lacking in either your source or amplifier ! (both?) Alex P.S. Flame suit is on. ;D Hi Alex no need for the flame suit as all views are welcome and add some balance to the discussion. people experiment with cables for all sorts of reasons:(some prime examples on CA of how bad the conversation can get) i us mine to get as close to what i think sounds right in my system to my ears. so Mundorf is pricey stuff but it does what i want it to and thus the great cable chase ended for me. my main reason for starting this thread was to encourage people to experiment without going down the big bucks commercial route as i did. fleeced all the way mostly which is how i started building my own. at least then if they are not what i wanted my bank balance has hardly flinched. myself i do hear differences between cables (some more obvious than others) but that's just me. some may hear no difference what so ever and that's fine to say so. so given that i hear differences makes it logical to experiment with cables. yup some of that stuff is expensive but the idea here was to make something relatively inexpensive. it just spread out a Little which is nice. so as i said ALL VIEWS WELCOME it make things more interesting. flamers will be flamed PS tried the miracle wraps but they caught fire when i was having a crafty fag. the fireman said it was a miracle i escaped. ;D ;D take care
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2011 1:13:43 GMT
Hi Shaun My comments weren't aimed at your contributions here which seem eminently sensible and don't go overboard (so far) with exotic and uber expensive ingredients.From my point of view, decent quality plugs are a pre requisite. Alex
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2011 1:24:04 GMT
Hi Shaun My comments weren't aimed at your contributions here which seem eminently sensible and don't go overboard (so far) with exotic and uber expensive ingredients.From my point of view, decent quality plugs are a pre requisite. Alex Hi Alex not taken that way and in the spirit of keep it cheap here is another I've tried in the past. www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/shoestrings_e.htmla fiddle to make but inexpensive and another way of doing things and a good read also. take care
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joethearachnid
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Post by joethearachnid on Nov 26, 2011 3:18:18 GMT
I found out the hard way that skimping on plugs doesn't work out. First one of the plugs melted a bit during soldering, leaving me with an off-centre/bent middle bit of the RCA plug, but then shortly after the plug shorted out and caused all sorts of issues. On the other end of the cable was a 3.5mm Neutrik plug, which was wonderfully easy to deal with by comparison. On that note, anybody with some nice Y-splits? I'll probably make another 3.5mm-stereo RCA cable at some point and still haven't found a reliable-looking way to connect one cable in to two.
-JoetheArachnid
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