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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2011 14:19:25 GMT
While learning to fly the 120 SR, I'm going to fly one of these outside since it should be a lot more secure than a single blade and gives me something to do in the park when I have to take the daughter!!!! from www.anticsonline.co.uk/1311_1_16421.htmlIt's a big 'un and should be a bit of fun. Ian
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2011 14:34:24 GMT
Ian, That looks dead cooooooooool, cheap too, for a biggy. Did you see the sister model? www.anticsonline.co.uk/1311_1_10726.html Da biz-nez maaan! Are these beginner freindly or for experienced only? ( The wife says she likes a big black one )
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2011 15:20:07 GMT
They are very beginner friendly Chris, which is why I'm currently getting one. The one that I'm learning to fly is a bit smaller than that one, but it has a single blade which means that it flies more like a real helicopter (not exactly the same) but it exhibits similar characteristics. So in effect, you're continuously holding it in position because it slips and slides in its own airstream. Basically, if you imagine a mushroom shaped packet of air, the helicopter is sitting on the top of the mushroom and can slip in any direction off the top. That's where you have to balance it so carefully. Learning how to do that takes a lot of patience and you need to be very meticulous and learn properly, or else you're into an expensive hobby in repairs and parts. I'm so one tracked, that I haven't had any serious prangs yet!! Anyway, while learning the single blade, I just want something that I can take out with me that's easy to control. The two bladed helis are much more stable and they behave more like sitting inside a saucer of air and constantly try to correct themselves. ie, they fly on their own really in comparison to a single blade. I have two coaxial helis, but they just aren't big enough to see outside once you send them up into the sky. In fact, I nearly lost sight of one up there and had to let the throttle down slowly and look for it coming down. If you put the throttle down too fast, the heli would plunge to the floor. It has to be very controlled. However, the big ones can be seen up there. The coaxials are prone to wind effect - that's their biggest problem so you should only fly them in flat conditions, but the bigger they are, they hold their own much better than the little flimsy ones. Just the weight of the battery on them is quite a stabilising factor. So, both the Taxi and the Skywolf are an easy fly, but if you're new to the hobby, their sheer size can be a bit frightening when those blades go round so fast and they start to 'purr' and because beginners can be a bit timid, they don't get a good lift off. You have to give them quite a lot of power and once they're up in the air, ease off or else they continue to rise and go out of sight!!! The Honey Bee that I had was a lovely heli, but I was too aware of the dangers of flying a single blade that size with people around. At least with a coaxial, if you get it into the air and get into difficulties, you can just leave the blades turning and it'll stay where you left it basically with no sliding around. That's the beauty of the coaxial. The downside is that they are slower and can be buffeted around by the wind much more. I just thought that this was a good price (Almost half price) so if I pranged it, I wouldn't be too worried. I wqas suspicious that it may not be so well built at this price, but they are doing an offer because they have so many of them. (I phoned them) They also work on 2.4 Ghz so they will be less prone to any interference which is a good thing with helis. (Safety is always in my mind with anything flying). The biggest danger with it could be suddenly changing direction or going fast, so that the top blades flex and hit the low blades which would smash them up. However, blades can be replaced and it always pays to take it very easy with a flying object, which is what I always do in any case. It's not like a car where you can just stop the engine. Once it's up, you have to keep flying until you get it down!! I'm cautious with the Blade heli that I have because it is a difficult fly in comparison to anything else and I am determined to learn it thoroughly and not take chances outside. This is typical 120 SR flying when someone isn't really in control: Here is a (poor quality) video of a Skywolf: The Skywolf is the same machine as the Taxi - just black. Maybe you should 'ave a word with the missus about the black one!!! I'm just going to put mine on the bookcase and see if the wife notices!!! Ian
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2011 17:20:12 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2011 17:39:53 GMT
You must be able to read my mind, Dave. That's exactly what I was thinking of. This one is big enough to strap a camera to and it did occur to me to have a look from up there for a laugh!! I'll see how secure it is in flight first since I wouldn't want to drop one that size on someone or their car. Since it's a coaxial, it'll probably stay pretty stable up there, but better safe than sorry!! I was also thinking of looking at the chimney to see if it needs repairing if I can hold it still enough. I presume that the pictures from that device are sharp? It has pretty good resolution. Ian
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2011 18:00:01 GMT
Ian, TBH I haven't had a look at mine, I've been too busy with other things (like installing my early Chrissy pressy, a Xonar ST card, in my PC. To make it fit I had to take the hack saw to the 'cage' that holds the HDDs in place - all good fun innit ). I don't mind posting mine down to you to 'try before you buy' but, on reflection, the postage probably means it wouldn't be cost effective . Cheers, Dave.
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Post by toad on Nov 5, 2011 19:09:04 GMT
That looks Impressive Ian. Very cheap too. What are the charge and flight times? I'll be looking to get something similar to that next spring. I was looking at the Revell Big One earlier today, an unfortunate name tbh but a nice looking helicopter. It seems very stable. I feel I've mastered the Coaxials fairly well now but I'm still going to wait for the better weather before getting an outdoor helicopter. I doubt I'll get a 4 channel outdoor for a while though as my Century Z is still doing some bouncing off the walls. I've only flown it 4 times though so maybe 30 minutes max. I am improving but it's a totally different ball game with a single blade. They can move so quickly that you have hardly any time to react when you cock things up Oh btw Dave you're a bit late with the camera link rockgrotto.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=rchelicopters&action=display&thread=7338
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2011 20:29:22 GMT
It has a big battery, Ian and I think 8 - 12 minutes. Not sure of the charge, but I'll probably get another battery or two if it's a good flyer.
Ian, that heli you're looking at is only 3 channel so you're not able to bank left and right. I find that banking can get you more easily out of difficulties since it not only offers left and right (for the whole heli) but diagonals as well. So you can move virtually in any direction very easily and quickly. As soon as it gets near a wall, push the other way. You'd be surprised how quickly it moves when you do a diagonal or sideways move.
THE most important thing with a single blade is a) to get take off and landing right b) Get it to hover properly. c) Slow forward movement. d) Turns - start with a right turn, it's easier because of the rear rotor placing. Go slightly backwards while you turn right. The heli will be more stable and it won't shoot forward. On left turns, push forwards while you turn - that'll stop the heli going backwards. e) Circles left and right. Stand in the middle of the room as well, and make it go around you, left and right. f) Stand in the middle of the room and go to your left, do a right turn, let it pass you to the right and do a left turn, so your heli is going (in effect) left and right in front of your face. g) Figure eights. (Very hard)
If you get through that lot, you'll stop crashing Ian. Do everything slowly and concentrate on absolute control. As soon as it is out of control, land or grab it.
I have a fight on with the 120 SR, but the key is absolute patience. If I crash that one, it will break because it's over a foot long and heavier. So far, no crashes.
However, I severely limit what I do and do everything in tiny steps. That way, (for me) it's more fun and I'm learning flight characteristics very closely.
I've had the 120 a little while now and I've sorted out the take off. Landing can be a bit bumpy so I still practise getting it down nicely. (In fairness, the tail rotor doesn't stop at exactly the same time as the main rotors so you can get a spin on landing - I've seen that in so many videos and now I can see why) I've sorted out the hover and I've now started sending it round the room and land by walking with it. As soon as I get into trouble, I grab it and start again. My next stage will be to send it round the room without following it, but not until I'm really ready. So I'm currently working on left and right turns in effect.
The MSR is totally under control now. I no longer find that too difficult and is a good single blade heli to fly. MCX2 is just nothing - it flies itself. I send them up into the sky!!
One tip that I found useful - learn to grip the controls with your thumb and finger. I have found that hovering and controlling the heli is much more accurate this way, once you get used to it than using your thumb on the top of them. The thumb works, but once you get something challenging to fly, you tend to over compensate with thumbs whereas if you actually hold the sticks, you can do 'micro' adjustments which make all the difference.
If you do a left tweak, you have to follow up with a smaller right tweak to stop the heli and that's where the micro twitches really help.
That lot may save your single blade, Ian!! Of course a bad workman blames the tools, but it may be that the single blade that you have isn't actually easy to fly. I found that with one that Mike likes - the V2. It hovers far better than the MSR but it doesn't fly as well. For me, it's over twitchy whereas the MSR responds to micro twitching much better. That could be the case with yours and it's not actually easy to control. Single Blades are inherently unstable!!!
Anyway, working bit by bit on one aspect improves your flying much quicker than tootling around and crashing. It can be frustrating but when you've mastered it, you'll know, because that's when you'll start speeding up and doing all the flashy stuff you wanted to do in the first place. I do a trick with the MSR where I start at one end of the room and literally 'throw' it up the room at full whack and then stop it very quickly before it reaches the wall. I would never have done that when I first got it since I felt that it was impossible to fly.
Anyway Ian, 4 channels isn't harder than 3 really. You don't even have to use the 4th channel if you don't want to. (banking) However, it's worth having.
The Sky Taxi looks pretty stable to me. I'll see when I get it. I just want something that's big enough to see outside at further distances so I can practise long distance manipulation before I take the much faster 120 SR out. So I have something slower and more stable to work on before I make the leap to long distance with heli that is also a pig to fly.
Following that, I may move on to a big single blade, but then I'd be working at extreme long distance and I'm not sure about that. (yet)
Remote control and long distance is a more difficult thing to do since you're not so much in contact with the heli and at times you can't even hear it.
That's why I don't get worried by 'mockers' and the idea of 'toys' because physically, when you see these things go up, they are impressive and extremely difficult to orientate and drive properly. The little ones for indoors are great when the weather is bad and you get to practise turns and moves at close distance before going out and flying the same pattern for real.
So, be careful of that Coaxial, Ian. It doesn't look that stable in the video and it's only 3 channel. The Sky Taxi is under offer at the moment and that price is nearly half of its retail. That shop (and another one somewhere I saw) has an overstock of them and the Skywolf, which retails a bit cheaper as well. The Sky Taxi btw is only £60 delivered to your door. No postage. I checked my bill. That's cheaper than an MCX2.
Again, if it's too big to fly indoors, I won't fly it until the weather allows.
Ian
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2011 22:22:31 GMT
Oooops, ah well, it appeared to serve as a reminder for Ian (or maybe not ) - no harm done and gave a plug for the mini camera. Dave.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Nov 5, 2011 22:49:05 GMT
The Sky Taxi looks great Ian!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2011 23:12:59 GMT
We'll see, Mike. I don't mind taking a chance on it since it's reduced and all that.
1300 mah battery and 12 minutes flight. Hopefully, it'll be stable since it's a coaxial but I think the blades are a bit flimsy. There's a spare set with them so they obviously expect you to whack them. That's also a problem with Esky's Big Lama. Flimsy blades that can clash with each other if you put demands on them. I didn't get the Lama in the end because I wasn't very chuffed with the quality of the Honey Bee canopy. It started to split on the seam so I thought I'd leave the Lama and try to find something else.
What I don't get is they advertise the Sky Taxi as an indoor heli, but it is actually quite big. I have great problems holding the 120 sr back and this is twice the length, I think so I hope it does hold its hover. I could end up with claw marks on the walls.
Ian
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2011 23:21:56 GMT
Ian You could end up with claw marks on your person, if SWMBO finds damage to the walls or furniture ! Alex
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Post by PinkFloyd on Nov 5, 2011 23:27:16 GMT
The only thing that I would be concerned about are spare parts and spare batteries..... they seem to be in very short supply and, in fact, I can't see anywhere that sells replacement batteries.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2011 23:48:27 GMT
I'm hoping she doesn't notice it, Alex!!
The shop that's putting them out says they're waiting for delivery of spares, including batteries, Mike.
If not, i'll have a look for equivalents. At least the battery comes out so someone is making them,,,,,
Just a question of who.
Ian
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2011 0:11:46 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2011 8:11:44 GMT
Chris, wait until I get it, just in case it's no good. It attracted my attention because on checking other sites. It's retailing above£100. That's why I phoned them and when I asked about any in stock, he said 'loads' of them!! Apparently, they have spares on order.
I was wondering about the quality of the canopy because quite a few I've seen are Mickey Mouse. Crash something that size and the canopy will probably collapse under the weight.
I also read about a guy who was frightened to get it off the ground. That's what I mean by the physical size making it a bit scary.
For me, it's just to make the transition from small to large on a 'safe' machine and to be able to fly at long distance.
Ian
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Post by toad on Nov 6, 2011 10:52:45 GMT
I think I'm going to compile bullet points of your instructions and follow them to the letter. On the other hand flinging the Century Z about is great fun... Must resist the urge to fly before I can walk Seriously though Ian, your efforts to train me are much appreciated and I'll try to calm my flight down. TBH I have improved and I am trying to do things one step at a time. My main problem with 4 channel isn't the complexity of the control it's simply that the rotation of the helicopter is on the opposite controller to a 3 channel so I end up flying sideways when I really want to turn etc. So imagine I am heading for the wall. I think oops turn left and all I do is fly sideways and hit the wall 2 foot left of where it was going to hit lol. I'm thinking of learning the left controller only by putting some blutac on the nose of the helicopter to put it into a gentle forward flight mode. Effectively I'd be flying it one handed two channel only until I get used to the rotation on the left stick thing. The good thing is at £25 for the Z Century I don't worry too much about breaking it. With something like your 120SR I'd be worrying all the time about crashes.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2011 11:29:44 GMT
Exactly Ian. I'm very careful with the 120 because it could also do some serious damage, so mistakes are a no no really.
I know it's boring to go through those stages, but there are two real benefits in that you'll be able to actually see your progress (in small steps) and you'll feel that you're getting somewhere and you'll stop crashing.
It's actually quite boring to just fly around taking chances and then keep crashing after a while. Also, you kind of don't learn anything about the way they fly really.
I know this sounds nerdy, but once I got the 120 into a proper hover that was actually under control, I started just turning left and right very slowly, just to see which way the heli would veer. (They all do that - real ones as well) Generally, you'll find a right turn makes the heli go forwards and a left turn makes it go backwards. (Not in the case of coaxials though) Then, I started to learn the micro adjustments necessary to hold it still while turning before I even considered moving forward.
However, for sheer enjoyment after a concentrated learning session, I tend to revert to the MSR or the MCX2 to have a blast.
Actually, I'm really chuffed with my little collection following Mike's post about the MCX being a good heli. There's a guy called Peter Jones who is a part owner of Bladez (A Dragon's Den man) and the company that he invested in makes little Bladez helis which I had quite a few of and was quite happy with them plus the loan of some mates helis that I occasionally flew.
However, once I tried the MCX2, I realised that the Bladez were severely limited and I'd always had a wish to fly some of the good ones that I'd borrowed but didn't really want to pay the money out I guess!! (Yes, I know, my mates are mental) (Just have too much money!!!!!)
Once I had flown it, I realised how good the Blades are and how well thought out their helis are in that they move by really logical steps. I also realised that my mates just had random helis and stuck with them.
So I followed their upgrade path which has really paid off and I'm now flying the MSR on the 'fast' settings since you can speed up their act and the MCX2 as well. There's a definite learning path with them.
If you don't learn them, you'll still get there, but imo it'll be slower and more expensive. Patience and close observing is the key, Ian. If you don't pick it up, you'll stay with coaxials and not move on, which is fine for some people in any case.
I probably come across as a bit of a nerd, but once you get a grip of them, they're great. The most common thing is getting frustrated at not being able to fly them (like your Single Blade heli)
Just avoid 'flash' if you can and go back to coaxial for a mad minute or two!!
However, Ian, I have found that Single Blades are very variable in the way that they fly and as I said, the one you have may not suit you, like the V2 wasn't for me really. I found that it over-reacted to the joysticks and the settings were a bit crude. If I could have set it to to my DX5e transmitter, maybe, it would have calmed down, but it wasn't my cup of tea tbh. That could be the same for you.
So now, I have
Blade MCX2 (2 of them) One for outside, one inside in case I crash) Blade MSR - indoor stunts and possible outdoors. Flies better than MCX outdoors. Blade 120 sr - A bit big indoors and have to be very careful. Outdoors eventually. Sky Taxi - (When it comes) Big but a coaxial so more controllable for outside. Blade MSR x - not here until December. Indoor Single Blade with no flybar so it could be pretty lively so that'll be another challenge.
To get your single blade up safely, Ian, try revving until it's almost going to lift and then give it a pretty big boost so it comes off the floor quickly and then once in the air, back off to get it to hover. Then try to hold it in place. Once you get used to it, you'll be able to slow down the lift off but that takes real control. If it's not controllable, it could be the heli. I know that some of the cheaper ones can be very erratic.
Ian
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2011 11:42:08 GMT
Chris, I looked on that site and it's pretty good. I notice that they supply a new body for the Sky Taxi - Cheap as well. So that's good for crashes. The only thing I want to find out is what the battery looks like and what the connection is. They seem to very quiet about the batteries, but I notice that Ansamm cars use MASSIVE batteries. So I can't see it being too much of a problem once I know what the damned things are. I'd really like a set of 4. First though, I'll see if I can safely get it off the ground. Chris, if you can't get one over there and you want one, I could order it here and send it here and repost it to you, but I dread to think what the postage would be because it's nearly 2 foot long. I could easily phone them and ask if they'd post abroad (for Christmas presents?) I just had a look, Chris: Shipping and Tax Charges
UK: The price you see is the price you pay! On orders above £50.00 we don't even charge extra for shipping. A delivery charge of £4.50 is added on orders below £50.00 except for a few products that must be sent by courier when the delivery charge is £6.50. Where an order is for just one or two small items, postage may be reduced to £2.50.
Non-UK: There is a minimum shipping charge of £5.00 for all overseas orders. You will therefore be charged whichever is the higher amount of £5.00 and the actual cost of shipping. We will always email you for your approval should the amount be more than £5.00. For deliveries outside the European Union, UK Vat of 20.0% will be deducted from the price, you may however have to pay any local sales tax or import duty due. The amount charged to your card account may vary slightly due to exchange rate fluctuations and commission - we currently debit cards in pounds sterling - this will be converted by your card provider to your local currency.In the UK, they don't charge any more than the price so there's no postage. When you think, the black one is just £50 delivered, that's pretty good value if it's a good flyer. See how mine goes first though!! Ian
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Post by toad on Nov 6, 2011 11:56:00 GMT
One thing I have noticed with the single blade is you have to be very gentle on the controls. If I push the stick like I do with the 3 channel coaxials the Century Z is off like a rocket. I've sort of come to appreciate what you mean about following up movements with tweaks of the other direction.
I'm not too bad at taking off. I just give the Z a little right yaw to stop it drifting left on take off and it goes up fairly smoothly. But as they say "Any fool can fly. It takes an expert to land."
I've come to appreciate that it's as much fun trying to be smooth and precise as it is to be fast and flashy. My little Apache 3 channel is now my favourite helicopter purely because it is so smooth and stable. I've added a little blutac to the nose so it's rock steady in a hover. It used to drift backwards very slowly. Now I have never seen a more stable small heli, even in all the youtube videos I've seen. I like seeing how gentle I can make turns and how smooth I can take off and land. For a small 3 channel helicopter the Apache is remarkably stable. I can even land it fairly smoothly and it hovers like a hobby grade heli. Amazing for the price.
I'm going to do another video of the Apache showing just how smooth and stable it can be.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2011 12:16:56 GMT
Actually, Ian, the You Tube videos tend to be pretty poor on the whole. They're flinging them all over the place.
I can fly the MSR so slowly that it just creeps forwards if I want now, and yet, if I let rip, it goes like a rocket.
When I first got it, I thought it was just mad. That's because I came from the MCX2 which is much slower and very stable.
Single Blades react much quicker so that's why I started to use the pinch grip on the remote. You can use minute tweaks to hold it then. Your thumb tends to be a lot cruder for some reason and when you hold the sticks, you can do diagonal tweaks much easier, whereas with your thumb, it's harder to work out how diagonal your movements are!!
You get used to it after a while.
Ian
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2011 17:43:11 GMT
Ian, OK but I think you'll need to change from "Rabbit" to "Guinea Pig" ;D
(Thanks for the offer of posting on)
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Post by toad on Nov 6, 2011 18:02:47 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2011 18:13:33 GMT
Or even this at £14.99.... at www.play.com/Gadgets/Gadgets/-/3451/2718/-/20190385/RC-Helicopter-Sky-Fly/Product.htmlIan is right, they're not as simple as just send them up and off you go!! (Even beginner ones can be difficult for beginners I guess) Fantastic value if it flies well when you compare it to the blades. The Sky Taxi is also cheaper than the MCX2 which is great if it works!! Remember though, these things won't work outside if the sun comes out. I sent one into a swimming pool in Guernsey. It was cloudy so it worked fine and then the sun made it do a dive and become a submarine. Also, beginners are always surprised at the speed of the rotors when they first start up a big one. They need a lot of power behind them to lift off compared to little ones. It can be very intimidating. The Honey Bee spooked me a bit when I got it up in the air - positively vicious!!! Ian
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Post by toad on Nov 6, 2011 18:58:05 GMT
Or even this at £14.99.... at www.play.com/Gadgets/Gadgets/-/3451/2718/-/20190385/RC-Helicopter-Sky-Fly/Product.htmlIan is right, they're not as simple as just send them up and off you go!! (Even beginner ones can be difficult for beginners I guess) Fantastic value if it flies well when you compare it to the blades. The Sky Taxi is also cheaper than the MCX2 which is great if it works!! Remember though, these things won't work outside if the sun comes out. I sent one into a swimming pool in Guernsey. It was cloudy so it worked fine and then the sun made it do a dive and become a submarine. Also, beginners are always surprised at the speed of the rotors when they first start up a big one. They need a lot of power behind them to lift off compared to little ones. It can be very intimidating. The Honey Bee spooked me a bit when I got it up in the air - positively vicious!!! Ian I'd be a little wary of that one Ian. Firstly it has no reviews. Secondly I bought a very similar looking one from 7dayshop for the same money and although I've got the hang of it now, it needs trimming literally every 20 - 30 seconds. Certainly not beginner friendly. The AH64 on the other hand needs only a slight trim 2 or 3 times per flight. It also comes with a usb lead so you don't have to clobber your remote batteries. It's the top selling helicopter on Play.com I thinks it's the mutts Of course your linked one could be the best mini heli ever but I'd go with the Apache as it has 55 reviews, mostly glowing.
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