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Post by gommer on Dec 1, 2011 18:37:09 GMT
Ah, David Silvian. I know him from Japan, but I'm not familiar with his later career. Will have a listen.
Oh and Ruben, thanks for mentioning Birdy. I should check her out.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2011 18:54:51 GMT
Jeff,
You beat me to it with David Sylvian. Always been keen on his stuff from Japan onwards.
In a very different way there is also PJ Harvey.
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funk1969
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Some things are so easily overlooked...
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Post by funk1969 on Dec 1, 2011 21:17:54 GMT
Birdy is impressive. The control she has over her voice impresses me more than Adele's best songs.
Sela Sue, now her album I really should check out. Her performance of "Mercy" with Triggerfinger is so much fun. You can still find it on Youtube if I am correct...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2011 5:10:45 GMT
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Post by gommer on Dec 2, 2011 6:35:05 GMT
Alex,
That's the version I bought and it sounds remarkably better (and less distorted) than the CD.
Marc
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2011 10:24:50 GMT
I hope so Jeff, just purchased some tickets for their show at the O2 on the 10th, never seen them live, so looking forward to it. Mick. PS. Could someone explain to me in laymans terms, why there is so much distorsion creeping on to cd`s, downloads at present!!!
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Post by gommer on Dec 2, 2011 11:33:31 GMT
IMO, 3 things: * loudness wars * time to market ($$$) * a general trend of society: lack of pride in the work that we do (in this case, for the the production engineering)
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2011 12:45:50 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2011 13:09:13 GMT
Thanks Jeff, I think it will be, your recommendation is good enough for me. Managed to get good tickets in section 110, a treat for a "special" friend of mine for Xmas as much as myself, this will fit the bill quiet nicely. Will check out your links later, plus the other artist you recommended. Thank you very much. ATB. Mick.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2011 13:23:24 GMT
IMO, 3 things: * loudness wars * time to market ($$$) * a general trend of society: lack of pride in the work that we do (in this case, for the the production engineering) How does this loudness thing work Marc!! the other two i can sort of understand, but makes no sense to me at all, as in the case of Coldplay`s new release, completely ruins what in my opinion is a musically nice album. Snow Patrols Fallen Empires, which i like even more suffers from the same problem. Mick.
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Post by gommer on Dec 2, 2011 13:58:24 GMT
Hi Mick,
You have to realize, as Ian has learned us, that after the Musician's work is finished (including mixing ) there can be a perfect end-result. It then goes into the hands of technical producers who prepare it for pressing and releasing and from that point the music becomes a product with a number instead of an emotional acomplishment. At that stage, it's a factory and management has control.
Loudness war is part of this rotten system, where management types think that if music is perceived with a higher loudness, it will sell better (because it supposedly stands out on the radio). The cullprit is the word 'perceived', because peak values measure the same. But because it is compressed, dynamic resolution is lost in favour of a higher overall loudness. And in the process of compressing, if a non-caring, technician (or a caring one with his boss breathing in his neck), when the dial is turned up a bit too far, compression turns into clipping and distortion.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2011 16:51:54 GMT
Hi Marc,
Yes i understand what you mean now, but wouldn`t you think that somewhere along the line (quality control if you like) somebody would have sat down with a reasonable playing system such as a decent set of HP`s, Amp and mp3 or cd player, and said "hang on a minute this sounds crap".
As is, i would be very reluctant to purchase any of the above artists work again, because i am so disapointed with their send to market product, as good as the original recording might well have been.
Thanks for your help Marc.
Mick.
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Post by gommer on Dec 2, 2011 17:10:48 GMT
All I can say is, I'm still desparetly searching (after 15 years) for a company where common sense rules.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2011 20:44:03 GMT
Mick, the mixes are done so that the peaks are the same but the quiet sounds are boosted, so in effect, it's all roughly the same volume.
If you looked at the waveform, you'd see a solid mass of sound with no contrast in dynamics.
You perceive soft sounds to be less instruments, so you 'think' it's quiet when it's not.
Originally, LP mixes had this done (much more carefully) so that surface noise wasn't a problem on the soft parts.
However, recent years has seen morons destroying dynamic range so that it goes out on the radio, seemingly louder than anything else. Non hi fiers think that this is a 'powerful' sound and so a good recording and it makes them want it more than other stuff!! They do the same on adverts on TV. The adverts are always too loud in comparison to the thing you're watching.
Some idiots then up the volume even more so that they are verging on distortion and a good set up like yours will pick this out easily. Most crap units are less fussy.
Someone named it the 'Loudness Wars' but it's the tech guys doing this, not the musicians which is very frustrating for them. They have much less control than people think over quality and in fact, if they try to intervene, it can cause physical fights. (Believe me - I know)
Some sound engineers and production people just don't get it and they continue with this very poor practise in order to seem as loud as possible to attract a mass market.
They have a lot to answer for and have had since the production of CD's in the 80's; something which I am still hopping mad about and it seems that each time something is so called 'remastered' it bloody gets worse.
As you can hear, it's a pain in the butt on a good system like yours.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2011 9:08:44 GMT
Hi Ian,
A very interesting reply.
Up until these last two purchases (three if you include the Lana del Ray single) i have been quiet happy with the purchase quality of my albums, both cd`s and hd downloads.
Both the Coldplay and Snow Patrol albums, lack any detail in the louder passages of the more "heavy" tracks, just comes across as a noise.
Now, track 10 (Up in Flames) on Coldplay`s Mylo Xyloto, a beautiful albeit sad song, makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand up, just Chris singing with very little instrumental back up (lovely bass line) comes across very well.
Its very frustating, especially as you say, it could be rectified, the final product would then be a brilliant album IMO.
Mick.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2011 11:52:36 GMT
I agree Mick. I had a good listen to the Coldplay album and the first thing that I noticed on my set up was the compression. Overdone in a lot of it. I like the album though although I know that it's currently a bit unfashionable to like Coldplay!! On my system, the opening track has a tremendous thud on the bass drum beat which kind of implodes your head on headphones. I guess you're still listening to the download? The same thing is on the CD. Hopefully, the same master wasn't used on a vinyl version. If it was, it would sound fat and warm to say the least!!
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Post by PinkFloyd on Dec 3, 2011 20:06:22 GMT
I've never liked them (not that that matters to anybody) find them very "music for the masses" type of thing... ideal type of thing for a crowd to wave candles to.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2011 21:09:41 GMT
I've never liked them (not that that matters to anybody) find them very "music for the masses" type of thing... ideal type of thing for a crowd to wave candles to. I wasn't that fussed either, Mike. The new album is an improvement although the compression is just too much. I guess it's the result of DAB and getting as much volume as possible through a narrow bandwidth. Awful on a half decent set up. On a good setup, it's dreadful to put up with. The first track on the Coldplay has such strong thuds on the bass drum, it feels like your head's being whacked on headphones. Coldplay kind of remind me of a Scottish band I heard years back - I think they were called the 'Blue Nile'. I know one album was called 'Hats' and it all got kind of intense and stuck in itself, a bit like the first Coldplay stuff. BTW - Kate's album is kind of growing on me, I hate to say!! It's better than that Washing Machine track for me!! ;D Her and Peter Gabriel have gone into this kind of 'intellectual' route and sometimes, all of the pontificating just gets to me with some little gems flashing just every now and then. The two of them kind of think the same way musically imo.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2011 14:17:26 GMT
I was listening again to 50 Words last night with my latest acquisition, a pair of Goldring DR150's and - F**K Me, another mistake, error, quality control F**k Up, call it what you want This is really beginning to P**s me off Same track - 'Lake Tahoe', track 2.Who the F**k mixed/engineered/produced/recorded/whatever this track?? Someone on work experience?? A yopper?? (Do you still get yoppers?) At around 8.44 she stops dead, sighs and then at 8.45 the piano starts again. The first note is fine, but the second note sounds like the tape is slowing down. It starts at one pitch and ends at a lower one, kind of like a Doppler effect? Help out here Ian I don't know the technical terms. I had not noticed it before last night. I was just having a quick listen to the Goldrings before I went to my bo-bo's and there it was, plain as day. I have listened critically to that track before and never noticed it , though I doubt it was the Goldrings that let me hear it. I don't know why I've never heard it before @ Marc. It's on the 24/96 Dl as well. Jeff
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2011 14:33:12 GMT
That's the f'up that stood out for me! There's really no excuse
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2011 14:38:50 GMT
......despite all that I am enjoying the album though.
BTW, I'm another one that's not keen on Coldplay, the music is fine, I just can't stand the vocalists voice, he sounds sounds like he's whinging. I put him in the same category as James Blunt, NO you're not beautiful, you're a whinging git!
Can I have similar money if I start whinging to music? (it's the pomm-ness bit in me!).
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Post by gommer on Dec 4, 2011 15:34:28 GMT
IMO, there is a lot of intentional processing on the 50 words, just how much, only Kate can tel. Maybe this is one of those things. Things that sound like doppler effect probably are not a result of bad engineering. Engineering involves compressing, limiting, increasing gain and adding gain (wow-wow) and clipping distortion, i think.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2011 16:01:26 GMT
Marc,
this is not intentional processing, this is just wrong.
Jeff
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2011 17:42:07 GMT
All I can say is thank goodness people are starting to notice!! Now do you really believe that she has control over production seeing that she is into technicalities?
This has been going on for years. The equipment that we listen on is getting better and we're noticing something that I mentioned over 20 years ago and was told it's not there!!
It's best to try to ignore it and just listen to the notes!!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2011 20:04:10 GMT
. Jeff, Hmmmmmm!! i must be losing the plot here, ive listened to this sector of the recording at least 30 times now trying to spot your defect, even using my Senn HD800`s, and they are super critical, it sounds just fine to me, 2nd note sounds as good as the first to my ear. Jesus!! i better get my hearing checked out if everyone seems to notice that except me. Mick.
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