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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2011 7:19:34 GMT
Following the extremely scary experience I had with a Honey Bee (be warned - REAL life danger stuff) I have a 120 SR on the way which is a compromise between Miniature and big 'uns like the Honey Bee. It's just a foot long rather than two feet!! It also flies in a similar way to the MSR, I'm told so I'll probably be more attuned to it. I guess, I've been happier with the upgrade path offered by Blade which seems really logical to me and the next one up from MSR is this one which is about twice the size. I'll try flying it this weekend and get back .......... Ian
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Post by PinkFloyd on Oct 14, 2011 8:31:05 GMT
Hi Ian, Sam had a read of your post re: the Honey Bee V2 and is of the opinion that the rotor motor overheated / cut out and then came back online.... apparantly they do this and it's perfectly normal.... he would be able to explain what happened better (and why) I am useless at passing on secondhand information but he explained exactly (in GREAT technical detail) why this happened and also how to ensure it doesn't happen.... as we now both now realise, there is more to flying these than just firing them up skywards and steering He even went so far as to draw a few graphs on an old cycle box to explain things and also a few more graphs explaining throttle curves and what have you..... under certain circumstances the rotor motor will overheat and cut out but will come back online as soon as it has cooled.... they key is to make sure it never gets to the stage of overheating but you have to be pretty advanced to realise what / where / when and why these things happen. Way too involved for me (at the moment) and my Honey Bee CP3 will remain shelved until I master the Nine Eagles Pro V2 and then the Blade 120SR (that's the route I am now going)..... sooo, you are a jump ahead of me with your 120SR! Anyhoo, just thought I'd let you know there is an explanation for the rotor thang and ALSO, he reckons it wasn't trimmed correctly.... apparantly, you trim it on the ground BUT.... after that you have to hover it, watch the characteristics, land it, turn it off and RE trim it for flight.... this can take take 5 or 6 trims to get exactly right. Doesn't matter now, as you've sent it back but for future reference this may be handy info Mikey
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2011 10:44:38 GMT
Hi Mike,
Funnily enough, that's what the guy in the shop said, which is why I mentioned quality control. He was very concerned about it and is going to contact the manufacturers. He was worried that it had gone out of control and potentially do some serious damage. Luckily, I got it down.
It hovered in the air fine. It ended with a slight lilt one way which I was going to trim out but it went up fine. In fact, I could have flown it if nothing happened.
The tail suddenly cut out and it went into a violent spin which also caused it to change position on the sky, so I was trying to keep it in one place while it was spinning and then suddenly, the tail came on again and it hovered but started to go forwards so I held it and blow me, the tail did it again.
I got it down and realised the tail had stopped. He thought it had heated up since I had it up in the air and so it was running.
The danger is the main thing. There's no way I'm sending something up this size with a young kid in the garden!!
The 120 sr is a compromise and seeing that I can easily control an MSR, this should be manageable although it is a foot long!!
I'll get a video together when it arrives.
Ian
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Post by PinkFloyd on Oct 14, 2011 11:06:22 GMT
Ian, apparantly they are DESIGNED so the motor cuts out if you overheat it.... the skill is in knowing the flight characteristics and all this is anticipated and compensated for so a skilled pilot will never get into this situation.... all sounds a bit too complicated to me (at the moment) which is why I'm keeping my Bee grounded until I fully understand everything about it. Don't tell the guy in the shop this is normal though!!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2011 11:26:13 GMT
Jeez,
It was up for 2 minutes!! That's a quick overheat.
Ian
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Post by PinkFloyd on Oct 14, 2011 11:45:51 GMT
Jeez, It was up for 2 minutes!! That's a quick overheat. Ian He's not into the net but I wish he would come on and explain WHY what happened did happen.... I couldn't fully understand it as he speaks in extremely technical language but, basically, if it had been piloted correctly that would not have occured... as I say, it's mind boggling stuff and which is why we are constantly told "you're not ready for one of those yet" Something to do with the proportional needing trimmed when the bird was in the "air"..... ie: the rotor motor was going WAY too fast.... trim on the ground, hover, bring back to the ground, switch off and then trim for "flight".... if not trimmed for flight it will basicallly be going "full on" all the time, in which case it will not control well and will invariably overheat and cut out. All seems a bit advanced to me but this is why we were advised to go one step at a time.... the analogy was this "you have just learnt to swim in a paddling pool and then you are thrown off the side of a boat into the North atlantic ocean, you will most definitely drown"
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2011 13:53:13 GMT
Oh.... well, blow that for a lark!!! I'll stick with 120 sr. Ian
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2011 15:57:31 GMT
It arrived today and I charged up, and got it straight into the air. This is a lovely flyer. In fact, I prefer its characteristics to the MSR I think although it's not what I would call easy.
Because it's a lot bigger, it's more intimidating and makes a lot more noise. It actually does a helicopter rasp which is a bit frightening. You know, ........rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!
It's a lot heavier than the MSR so it takes a lot of revs to take off, but once it's in the air, it's nowhere near as bouncy as the MSR and holds better. If anything, I think it's more stable because of its weight and it feels like a big heli.
Actually, it felt comfortable from the start, so the MSR has paid off big time.
It has the same pendulum, but not as pronounced. That's probably due to its weight, but I'm certain that this will go outside easily.
BNF version, so compatible with my transmitter and feels more like the 'real thing'.
Haven't crashed it yet and got it off the floor, first go.
A lot of this 'getting off the ground' is a 'nerve' thing. The bigger they are, the more intimidating they are and they also need more power so you just have to grit your teeth and get it into the air. Once up, it floats like a bee.
This is a lovely heli - big for an average room and yet, quite dinky outside I suppose. It's a really good compromise and I'm going to like flying this one a lot I think.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Oct 14, 2011 22:29:31 GMT
Excellent Ian! I am so pleased it's controllable and you're able to fly it about already.... nice one mate How big are they? Twice the size of a MSR or a bit smaller than a Honey Bee? A few snapshots would be great, or even a vid Have you actually flown her outdoors yet? I "briefly" had the Nine Eagles outside (just before it went apeshit) and in advanced mode that little thing can shift! I'd imagine the 120SR has a lot more poke and, being bigger and beefier, will be able to cut through the breeze a bit better..... I wish I'd gone the E-Flite route now as I love my MCX2.... I can almost fly it blindfolded! That Honey Bee CP3 was a bad experience and the Nine Eagles has gone wonky after only a few flights.... hopefully it's just a bad one and the next one will be more up to scratch. Jesus, we are starting to get a bit silly with all these helicopters I think
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2011 22:49:06 GMT
I took the 120 SR out briefly because it feels so big in a room. However, it's another jet propelled heli. It's fast and it's also slightly intimidating. It looks small on YouTube but feels like a large heli to me.
It's much more controllable than the Honey Bee. I got that hovering until the rotor started up. However, it was kind of scary if I'm honest. I get the same feeling with the 120 SR but feel more in control. The MSR is a doddle after the 120.
The 120 is a foot long so it's about twice the size of the mcx and half the Honey Bee.
What I like about the Blades is same charger and same controller for all. The 120 batteries can be connected via a lead to the 4 port charger I have for the MCX and MSR. It's a bit slower than the 120 charger but it does 4 in one go so you get a decent flight time.
Trimming for every flight too. I've become very sensitive to trim issues and found once everything lines up, they fly so much better.
I'll vid the MSR going dead slow. There is so much control with these single blades.
I really like the MSR and although it has it's foibles, it's basically a very acrobatic flyer. I'm sure the 120 will do the same. It's just bigger and more scary!!
They're all compatible and I really like that aspect. Less batteries, controllers and a familiarity in their flight characteristics which is reassuring as you progress.
I think the biggest leap is the 120. It's a different feeling altogether once they get bigger. Crashes are more serious so you're under a lot more pressure.
I've also found the the 120 flies better if you tighten up the blades. So they don't flop and the blades are more fixed. It's smoother that way.
Ian
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2011 9:46:44 GMT
Here's the 120 SR for size comparison: It looks and sounds bigger in real life. It makes quite a 'clatter' when the blades spin. It also wanders a bit more than the MSR, but that may be because it's bigger, it moves quicker over a distance and so makes the room seem very small. For instance, on take off, the MSR goes to the left slightly so I compensate and then it's fine in the air. The 120 SR does exactly the same so it's part of the Blade flight characteristics on the floor, but because it's bigger, it moves more distance much quicker so 'feels' like it's wandering more when in fact, it just needs more space. It still reacts to wind so I'm being very cautious about going outside, but I'm hovering in my front room and just learning how to hold it. I'm just holding it inside now for extended periods. These ones don't keep as still as the MSR believe it or not. They start slipping, but I think in all honesty, there's a lot of 'wash' coming back at it from furniture, floor, walls. It creates a massive draft. That may be why I find it trickier to hold but I can keep it in the air but the battery doesn't last that long tbh. I've ordered some more but the heli must be using an awful lot of juice to stay up. I am learning to just 'touch' the controls. It's very sensitive and fast!! On a steep learning curve now. Blade have got a definite 'upgrade' path in their helis. This one is more difficult than the MSR, which I thought was very tricky at the start. It tends to drift more but I've read that's a common thing with bigger models. It's too big for a small living room. I just have enough room to fly it in here. Maybe once I get it under tight control, I'll be ok, but at the moment, it's a case of learning to hover and hold and outside is out of the question. Better safe than sorry, so I walk around the house with it flying which makes it easy for me to grab it by the skids if I get into trouble. It's flying so I'm getting there!!! Ian
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2011 10:28:42 GMT
I have it in a safe hover indoors now and I can get it into the air without 'panic'. In fact, it is so similar to MSR but you have to give it a lot more juice to get it off the ground safely. The blades are quite big indoors so in hover, I am staying with it so I can grap it if it's getting too close to the wall. I'm finding the wall sucks it much more than the MSR but then again, it's creating a massive draft!! I am generally very careful while learning, but the blades have tipped a sofa, but no damage since I'm quick at just cutting the power. (and no damage to the sofa) The blades just fold up, so that's a really good form of protection. However, I have learned something from the experience. Following the 'tipping' of the sofa, where it literally 'touched ' it and I instantly cut the power, I noticed the heli starting to wobble every now and then, quite aggressively. I couldn't figure it out because it really hadn't hit hard at all. (It was on the floor) It had a slight jitter every now and then from the start which just went in seconds and occasionally came back to sort itself again, literally in seconds. I checked the MSR and in fact, that has the same characteristic except it's a lot smaller, so the twitch is smaller!! So it looks like part of what the heli does to sort itself out, which is fine. However, this was much more violent and happened more often. I looked at the blades and swash plate to look for damage or bends .... nothing. Not even a mark on the blades. Then I noticed the swashplate was moving up and down on the spindle. I thought, that can't be right. The only reason I noticed was that it was tilted upwards and the MSR is straight. On to the wonderful web to see if anyone else has this problem and it turned out to be so simple - it's unbelievably daft. There are links between the two sides of the blades and the swash plate. ONE WAS MISSING!!!! It turns out that when you hit something with the blades, these links will pop off to protect the heli so that the shock doesn't go down into the works. The blades also fold up. (like mine did) So it has built in protection in a way. That link also stops the swashplate moving up and down. So, back to the box where I noticed that they included 4 of these links and I popped a new one on. (I couldn't find the other one and wasn't sure it had been done then) Result - heli takes off better and hovers nicely. So there is some rather nice protection built into the design which is rather reassuring. Crashes are no joke when a heli gets this size. (In a room) I kid you not - I reckon serious damage could occur, so I'm extremely careful in the way I fly. I wouldn't recommend anyone going straight to this from a coaxial unless you keep it outside. You most definitely need experience on a single blade to hold it and what worries me a little is the way that the manufacturers and shops sell the idea of an 'upgrade' from a coaxial. I don't think so. It's a step too far. You most definitely need single blade experience to control this thing and lots of patience. You also need to be very observant in it's characteristics and trim it to death until you get the most stable possible. Then you STILL have to hold it. It is behaving most definitely like the Honey Bee but is more stable than that, but less stable than the MSR. It has a tendency to slip sideways off the 'air cushion' so you have to go with it and compensate all of the time. Really good flying experience but you really can't fool around when you get to this size. So ...... back to the internet and I've ordered batteries, multi charge lead, spare blades (I reckon it will happen eventually), spare links for blades, and a couple of tail blades (again, a matter of time I reckon) I also did my fist big fly outside today. It's much more under control outside in comparison to the two little 'uns. Now I can see why it needs all the forward power that it has and it's not even on the advanced settings. I can imagine this getting away from you extremely quickly. It's really fast if you push on the forward control. The nose dips right down and it rockets off. In fact, it's seriously fast. It doesn't look as whippy as the MSR but that's because of the size difference. It literally does a bolt and yet indoors, it can be quite docile in that you can keep it fairly still. It looks fantastic outside in the air. I'm starting to get a grip of it now although I still have a healthy 'fear' of what it does. A great step up from small single blades imo and an ideal link from small to the 'Bee' size helis. I should have done this in the first place so was lucky to be able to swap. Steeeeep learning curve, but I'm loving it!! Ian
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2011 7:57:22 GMT
With the bigger ones, it really pays to do what they say in the V2 booklet ..... Do hops and lengthen the length of 'hover' once you get more confident. I spent a long time literally going up and down in the air with it and now, I'm starting to get it off the ground without 'shooting' up to avoid ground air and I'm starting to be able to land it quite slowly without the typical 'spin' that you see in you tube videos. They key is patience and slow..... very slow. It starts to become more controllable then and you become attuned to its characteristics. Trouble is, once they're bigger than the mini ones, the potential for breaking on a crash is much higher. I quite like the blade protection though, where the pins just fly off on heavy contact. So far, touch wood, everything is still in one piece and I'm getting a pretty good hover. Not perfect because it does 'slide' but I am able to hold it in position without panic. The physical size is the thing that affects you the most at first; especially indoors. Outdoors, it's more visible and you can play more with the throttle, but I'm not chancing that until I have absolute control of taking off, landing and turning it without forward/back movement. One thing about the V2 is that in hover, if you turn left or right, there is very little 'swing' so the heli stays in the same place. With MSR, 120 SR and the Honeybee there is a definite 'swing' forward when you turn and this has to be compensated for. On left turns, I have to add 'forward' throttle and on right turns, 'back' throttle. If I don't, the helis move as well as turn. This can be used to build up speed in another direction. For instance, if you bank the MSR while turning right, it'll turn fine and literally shoot off at very fast speed. V2 doesn't do the same so if you go from a V2 to bigger, watch out for that because it can take you by surprise when you try to hover in a tight space. Learning all the time now!! To think, I was happy for two years with little toybee type helis!! Ian
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2012 18:50:39 GMT
Following my experience with a Blade 450, I decided to take the 120 outside today and give it a go now that I can safely hold it indoors and fly around the room.
In comparison to a 450, it feels quite small now so I put it down on the grass, got the blades spinning, held my breath and pushed hard to get it away from the ground.
It went up easily and it wasn't long before I was sending it on extended circles and figure eights. The only thing you have to watch is if there is a light breeze behind it, boy does it go fast, so I learned a new skill.
Turn the heli into the wind and at the same time, pull back on the forward aileron. Talk about a dramatic turn!!! The heli spins round but but the as it comes round, the nose goes up and the heli banks so you get a real Hawai 5 o turn. Then you're facing the wind which is a lot safer.
This is a really good heli once it's under control but what has surprised me outside is the speed. I flew really calmly and didn't send it up into the sky too far because I was a bit worried about it sailing off at a rate of knots, but because it's bigger, it does hold better in little breezes.
It's just that speed that can catch you unawares; especially with a breeze behind it and before you know, it's zooming off at such a speed, you kind of worry about how to stop it. It takes quick thinking but the banking into the wind trick is great and the wind current itself stops the heli.
However, another thing I've noticed with fixed blades is that then, if you face the wind and go forwards, the heli can lift at an alarming speed and be high in seconds, so on the banked turn into a wind, it banks while you add rear aileron - the nose lifts as it banks into turns and then it goes up and forwards. Before you know it, it's right up in the sky and you have to ease off on the throttle to bring it down.
The more I fly outside, the more I feel the need to go CP to stop this rising and falling effect when the blades hit the wind and cause transitional lift. It can be quite alarming - especially if the lift is on one side so the heli tries to turn.
I'm also learning to apply left/right aileron while going forward to counteract the wind. (crosswinds) It's very easy to let the wind push it but if you fight back, the heli holds and the gyro keeps the tail straight.
The 120 sr is a really good learning heli for the more serious helis and at £85 or so bnf it's a really good buy.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Jan 13, 2012 21:17:41 GMT
Nice one Ian I'm going to be curtailing my online spending for a while due to the advent of a "car" in a couple of weeks time... it's secondhand (due to the insurance costs for banned drivers) so I'll be putting quite a lot into it to try and get it 100%.... gonna start with the basics... give it a full service etc. and then work on replacing a few bits and pieces.... I always like to drive (from day one) with a new clutch... that way I KNOW it and can be pretty sure it will never wear out.... next up I'll fit new brake calipers / discs.... maybe go to work on the shocks.... new exhaust / new tyres etc. I'll now be able to DRIVE to the helicopter club!!! so any tips I get I will pass on here
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2012 22:47:09 GMT
I guess I'm beginning to look more at flying outside in bigger spaces, Mike. Now I can see that it's actually possible for me to do.
I won't rush into a big outdoor - I'll stick to the upgrade route because you kind of learn something from them all along the way.
Really, I'd lke to move to the MCPx and the sr at the same time. So the sr for outdoor flying and the MCPx for indoor practise.
The MSRx is under control now with the problem of left turns still there, but I think that's a heli board software fault. The hover and control is working fine for me now so I feel that I can move on to something even less stable without breaking it.
The sr is designed for people progressing to outdoor cp and is a tamer 450 I guess.
However, the 120 sr doesn't do at all badly and flies rather well but I'm now starting to fly the 'wind' which is a bit different to front room micros.
Trouble with cars, Mike is they cost a blinking fortune. If I could STOP driving, I would. What with insurance and the cost of petrol it's a killer plus the car tax and repairs. It's horrendous now.
You take it easy on the night drive back home. That's quite a trip you're doing for a first drive after a long break.
You'll have to get that big heli out in a field somewhere when you have the car.
Thing is with helis, it expensive I guess. I've been flying little ones for quite a while but I'm amazed how much progress can be made in a short while. Mind you, I have the time to practise I guess. I need a big, big space though because the bigger helis move so damned fast and it would be easy to lose them over the visible horizon. Before you can blink, they can be 100 yards away with a wind pushing them further.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2012 18:07:21 GMT
I took the 120 SR out to the park today. BOY did it move!!!!
I had it on the 'short swash ball' setting so it wasn't at top speed but it is unbelievably fast. This is the first time I've sent this one out on a 'long journey' because it can go out of control in seconds.
Anyway, this time, I tested which way the breeze was going and faced into it so the heli wouldn't shoot away from me.
However, took off, hovered ... fine. Then forward at speed and a circle. All fine. Then a little gust. It shot up in the sky ..... a long way.
I didn't go into panic ... just thought ... what the hell. Rev like a maniac and push sideways and forwards fast. The heli went like a bat out of hell and then the coup de resistance, a left banked turn to face back into the wind with back aileron. It actually slowed down and did a really graceful swoop into the wind.
It looked so good, I got quite a buzz and then landed it nice and slowly.
I went through 8 batteries out there and it felt so free to be able to send it right up into the sky and a long way out as well. At one point, I had difficulty working out which way it was facing because it was quite a long way away from me.
Anyway, no mishaps and I feel a lot more confident now, so I put it onto the longer swash ball setting, so next time, it'll really head butt the wind. I had a fly indoors at 100% on this setting and it was fine.
The more I fly outside, the more I feel the need for a CP to fight the damned wind.
There is something really nice about having such a big space to throw the heli around in without fear of hitting a wall or furniture. You can also see just how fast these things go.
The 120 sr is a rocket but because it's a fixed pitch heli, the wind can be problematic. However, I managed to hold it pretty still in hover, even in little gusts.
I now wish I'd kept the Honey Bee. (although that's fixed pitch) The cp3 is tempting but I'd like a better transmitter. The Blade 450 is superb with even a DX6i and the transmitter is really important for these types of helis. Once you have that lightening speed, you must be able to control it and the stock transmitters just aren't up to it really. They're fine for little starter helis but not really right for more challenging helis.
I may take the MSRx out to the park soon. I reckon that'll do better with its faster speed blades.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2012 7:56:46 GMT
The great outdoors! Fantastic to be able to let rip a bit.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2012 19:06:01 GMT
The freedom outdoors is great, Chris. You can send it a long way as long as there's no wind and you can really dip the nose so it shoots forward like a rocket.
I fact, I went so fast at some points that the nose pointed up in the air when I put the back aileron on to stop it. It's also nice to do some banking at fast speed. It really leans like a motor bike but you have to watch the speed on the other side.
The effect of wind is awful on coaxials and is also quite bad on single blades so I do feel it's time for a CP. It's just which one!!
That way, when you get transitional lift, the blades angle can be changed to stop the heli going up. That's a major problem with Single Rotors.
Mine became a speck in the sky and it's over a foot long. I couldn't work out which way the front was pointing up there!!!
The bigger helis don't seem so big outside in a park and I'm pretty sure I can fly one now. You just have to be very careful of any people and dogs.
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2012 13:30:39 GMT
I'm flying the beejaysus out of the 120 sr since the weather has improved dramatically and I'm now starting to dice with the wind. I think most of the the original heli has gone now and just the main frame is the last remaining part of the original. Parts have literally worn out and I've had to replace them.
It has a habit of shooting upwards when a draft hits the propellers which is a bit scary when it's way up in the sky. It also has another random habit which is quite scary.
Today, I sent it up into the sky until it was a little dot up there and then full throttle and away. It hit an updraft and shot up until I could barely see it so I turned left and eased the throttle down to let it drop. Instead of turning, it decided to dive, nose first like a bomber and it came down at a speed that was unbelievable. It was so high that I had plenty of time to think so I pulled back on the aileron and turned its nose around. It then went straight back up again. It did an amazingly fast swoop towards the ground following a left turn up in the sky and after looking on heli sites, I think I may have experienced what some refer to as the 'dive of death'.
It literally plummets like a dive bomber. It was so fast that I could hear the props rasping; even up there rather like the noise kites make in a strong wind.
Anyway, the answer is back aileron if you have enough space below to do it in and as luck would have it, the heli was too high in the sky to meet the ground. If it had hit, I don't think much of what I've replaced would have survived.
The 120 sr is a great training heli for longer distance flying. Its size makes it easier to see further away and it certainly has you jumping about with the wind. However, if you can hold a 120 sr in the breeze, then you'll probably be ok with other twitchers.
The MSRx is a better flyer outside but it's so damned small that it's very easy to lose it in the sky. The 120 is nice at longer distance and it's relatively well behaved in comparison to other helis so it gives you a good basis to move on to bigger and better.
It's tough as nails and the parts are so easily replaced that for me, this is a fun heli which dosn't worry me too much about crashes since I've virtually had the whole thing apart and replaced bits so many times that it now flies better than it did new!!!
Great heli. At £86 ish BNF it's a good buy for a beginner who'd like to fly something bigger outside, but it's imperative that you start with absolutely NO wind. It goes looney with a hint of a puff and you have to be ready to compensate or else it WILL crash. I've kind of developed fast reflexes and I watch the props like a hawk so compensations for drift are happening all of the time.
The 120sr and MSRx are really good trainer fp helis. The MSRx is harder to fly but is a hoot outside. It's really fast and copes extremely well with the wind. The 120sr is better for bigger spaces and long distance.
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