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Post by PinkFloyd on Aug 28, 2011 11:56:47 GMT
The RRP will be $49.99 USD / E35.00 Euro / £30.00 GBP
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2011 13:10:28 GMT
The RRP will be $49.99 USD / E35.00 Euro / £30.00 GBP Another ramble... it's quiet here today. I am looking forward to hearing these new Superlux designs... and only £30 GBP? I can sympathise (empathise?) with pro reviewers when they audition budget kit. And you can chunk up the possible results into just three groups: 1. As good as more expensive kit! Don't waste your dosh on dearer stuff. (V-DAC?) 2. Just as it should be - a good budget design, Value for money if you either don't need, or cannot afford better. (V-DAC?) 3. Absolute rubbish - don't waste your cash... it really is crap. (V-DAC?) Seriously, and in reality, having said all that, when a giant-killer of a bargain comes along it will sit annoyingly, somewhere between answers 1 & 2.... and that's when the journalist has to work hard; he has to try and describe whereabouts in the spectrum between good and perfect it lives, and why. Let me stick my neck out. Let's wave a flag above the parapet. For 30 quid, the 661's aren't sounding better than, say, some high-end Grado's or Stax's costing over a grand. Conversely, (leap of faith here) they will sound far, far better than all the pound-store, fun-fair-prize, near-give-a-ways you've ever seen. After all, we have the 681's as a fine example of what Superlux can achieve at just 20 quid. With the higher budget allowance for the 661's they're gonna be a whole new set of compromises... as all hi-fi kit is. So when my turn comes around, I'll do my best to describe how much I enjoy the particular set of compromises that is the 661 headphone... and see if I can put them on the scale somewhere, hopefully, between 1 & 2 above. I don't own ANY expensive headphones. Well, by my fortunate standards anyhow. What are Grado SR60s these days; in their new SR60'i' guise around 80-90 pounds is it? What were my Sennheiser HD 480s back in 1993? 40 pounds-ish? And my Superlux HD681's... well we all know how much they are. In money terms my references are well spaced around the 661's with the most expensive of the bunch still not a million miles away and well-regarded. And all three of these headphones sound totally different from each other. Totally. As you'd expect. All are 'budget' designs. Yet all of them make good music. Yes, the Grado's do indeed position me closer to the action than the Sennheisers. And the Superlux's 681's have the more solid 'in the room from a sub somewhere' bass. The top end of the 681's is a little more obvious than the others, but not too obvious (plus, I can't wear them for more than an hour). It's like having three kids, all individual and yet you love them all. * I am looking forward to seeing if I can adopt another child. Regards, from a chilly Shropshire summer, Derek *... but if I had to choose just one for the desert island then it'd be my Grado's
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Post by PinkFloyd on Aug 28, 2011 20:47:13 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2011 21:57:18 GMT
Big Frasier fan here, Mike, and funnily enough always wondered what phones they were but didn't recognise them. Ever noticed the way he often takes them off? Just pulls on one capsule till they come off his head and drops them on the table. I wonder how long the Sony's would last like that for real
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Post by PinkFloyd on Aug 29, 2011 6:54:56 GMT
Big Frasier fan here, Mike, and funnily enough always wondered what phones they were but didn't recognise them. Ever noticed the way he often takes them off? Just pulls on one capsule till they come off his head and drops them on the table. I wonder how long the Sony's would last like that for real Yeh, fan of Frasier here too They seem pretty robust 'phones Jeff, look like they could take a fair thrashing with a piece of hedge You will see Frasier with his Sony 'phones here:
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2011 9:09:07 GMT
I like the pink head, Mike. I think Christian has a glass one as well. Where do you guys buy the 'Non-Talking Heads'?
Ian
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Post by gommer on Aug 29, 2011 10:25:02 GMT
I guess these glass heads are all 80's leftovers. They wre very common those days. I used to have one but don't know where it went to with the years passing.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Aug 29, 2011 10:36:10 GMT
I like the pink head, Mike. I think Christian has a glass one as well. Where do you guys buy the 'Non-Talking Heads'? Ian It was in a hat shop in Tenby (Wales).... the Welsh girl did a bit of negotiating with the owner of the shop and bought it for me
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Post by clausdk on Aug 29, 2011 10:47:43 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2011 19:18:32 GMT
I see....... ;-) Nice to keep at least one headphone tidy! I end up with a pile on the floor. Mike, the 661 looks slightly smaller on your photos. It may be an optical illusion perhaps? It's funny because I envisaged them as a closed up 681. They look a tad more classy. It may also be interesting to compare them with the other Superlux closed headphone I've seen that does actually look like the 681. I envisaged that bowl shape doing something to the sound so they have used the 'flattened top hat' shape. Would it take AKG 240 velour pads in this shape? I'm not keen on those plastic pads, but it does have an effect on the sound. This will be an interesting listen I think!! Btw - someone else has their ears on them ........ headfonics.com/2011/08/superlux-hd661-headphones-we-are-evolving/Ian
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Post by PinkFloyd on Aug 29, 2011 20:43:47 GMT
Ian,
I must be going deaf if that guy thinks the HD-661 has "a lot more treble response" compared to the 7506. I think the HD-661 are much nicer balanced and far less toppy than the Sony 7506 but, as always, YMMV.
Having said that, listening to David Bowie's "The Platinum Collection" album through the HD-661 is PURE cheese wire / nails on blackboard.... MPEG audio file, 192kbps bit rate.
Listening to Yello "The Eye" in Apple lossless / 855kbps is a different kettle of fish.... the HD-661 do a very good job.
They certainly are NOT forgiving of poor recordings / compressed recordings / shite sources etc. The old addage ALWAYS applies, "garbage in / garbage out".
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2011 21:03:34 GMT
I must admit, Mike, I was puzzled by his description of the 7506 being flat. To me, it has a definite tilt to the treble and instant comparison with many other headphones reveals a 'nasty edge' to it's sound.
Reading some reviews I've seen on them, I wonder whether we have the same headphone!
I won't give up with them for the time being but they are not the most pleasant listen.
However, his description of the 661 puts it as more toppy than even the Sony. Now that has to be cheese wire!!! He also mentions a hump in the mid bass and the Sony going deeper. You reckon he has the same Sony?
If the Bowie files are the ones I sent, I remember that you found them thin at the time, Mike. You 'discovered' them on the hard drive I returned to you. I forgot to say I'd put stuff on the drive!! It may be the original is toppy. I find that with a lot of 80's stuff - the guts of the music is missing.
I can't wait to hear the 661's. All you lot will have heard them before I get home. Damn!!!! ;-)
Ian
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Post by elysion on Aug 29, 2011 21:54:28 GMT
How does the signal get from the left to the right ear? Does each "headband wire" have a signal wire running inside? Or are the "headband wires" the way the signal travels from the left to the right? I wonder if the Beyer DT250 velour earpads would fit the HD661 cans? www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/DT250EarpadI have DT250 velours pads here. They measure around 7.5 x 10 cm at the base. I guess the round part of the pads isn't absolutely equal, but I don't think it would be a problem if the size of the base fits. The DT250 pads can be fitted just like the K240 or DT990 pads. One thing is sure: Beyer makes damn good pads and the prices are moderate. If the DT250 pads fit on the HD661's, then they would be a nice addition to these 'phones. They certainly are NOT forgiving of poor recordings / compressed recordings / shite sources etc. The old addage ALWAYS applies, "garbage in / garbage out". It's interesting since it reminds me somewhat of the K702's. They are absolutely unforgiving when playing poor recordings. The DT 990 Pro's are so far the best compromise for me, but I must admit that they are quite forgiving. The HD650's are IMO the 'phones that mask the shortcomings of recordings much more than all other headphones. They sound almost as good with a poor source as they do with a good source. If they HD661's would be somewhere between the K702's and the DT990's on the forgiving/unforgiving scale, then they could be very interesting. The DT990's hide already a lot of imperfections, but the K702's are far too much on the "revealing" side.
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Post by marcusd on Aug 30, 2011 10:50:25 GMT
I am indeed that guy who wrote the review on headfonics I tested both a 7506 and the hd661 out of the HA-3D amp using same volume and since it is a 3 jack output sonically the same conditions. My source was a CLAS solo and ALO Audio Rx2 amp feeding into the stereo loop. The 7560 is a few years old with probably thousands of hours use and abuse and the lux about 50 hours max. I ab'ed both on the HA-3D for about 9 hours solid on 80's rock and 2088 dance and some jazz. Yes of course we all differ in our interpretations and I hope after 100 to 200 hours the lux changes. I found the HD661 to be more intimate than the more boring 7506. I didnt find the treble all that grating on the 7506 - COMPARED to the HD661 hehe.. and that is the kicker. The bass extension was slightly better for me on the 7506, slightly more balanced. The HD661 mid-bass hump was more pronounced - but that is just it guys, a mid-bass hump, not a lower bass hump. It sounds like it has more bass but its more bass slam to me and not bass reach. I was putting them things on back and forth like crazy and just felt the bass extended a little lower on the sony, maybe not as loud or with the same hump as the HD661. If I had $50 I would get the Sony on comfort and the HD661 on sound simply because its more involving than the 7506 which I found a tad boring. I didn't want to try it on high end desktop units etc simply because I dont think that is where a $50 unit is going to be stuck into.
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Post by marcusd on Aug 30, 2011 11:00:14 GMT
Ian, I must be going deaf if that guy thinks the HD-661 has "a lot more treble response" compared to the 7506. I think the HD-661 are much nicer balanced and far less toppy than the Sony 7506 but, as always, YMMV. Having said that, listening to David Bowie's "The Platinum Collection" album through the HD-661 is PURE cheese wire / nails on blackboard.... MPEG audio file, 192kbps bit rate.
Listening to Yello "The Eye" in Apple lossless / 855kbps is a different kettle of fish.... the HD-661 do a very good job.
They certainly are NOT forgiving of poor recordings / compressed recordings / shite sources etc. The old addage ALWAYS applies, "garbage in / garbage out".I think this is the single most important thing to note about these cans and agree with the variance your finding in the files being used. Sade "Solider of Love" in FLAC is superb and if you can keep it away from messy 192 to even 320kbps rock and shrill dance tracks it does do the job nicely.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2011 18:06:44 GMT
Hi Marcus,
The write ups I've read on the Sony had me expecting quite a lot from them so both Mike and myself got a pair in order to do a direct comparison with the 661.
You probably know that Mike has received a load of 661's from Superlux for us all to have a listen and a play around with.
We were all pleasantly surprised by the 681 series and our 'local genius' Solderdude, made a notch filter for them which takes the edge away rather effectively without damaging the rest of the spectrum and also leaving them still very sensitive.
That filter, a change of pads, replacing this horrible plastic rings around the 681 and sticking a coin to the sticking out bit under the badge on the cups seemed to improve them a lot so they became one of RG's favourites for the extraordinary price.
The idea of having 3 flavours of the same headphone and then mods as well has made them a very attractive buy.
So we are expecting a lot from the 661 but it was 'revealed' to us as a Sony beater.
So Mike and I have the Sonys and both of us feel a bit underwhelmed with them. Thin top end is my main objection to them and I really couldn't live with them in a studio situation.
You give the impression that the Sony is balanced sounding and the 661 is more toppy!! That really surprised me.
I haven't got my hands on a 661 yet since I'm currently away from home, but Mike is sending a pair to me next week, by which time, 10 others on here should have theirs and start posting their thoughts.
Any more treble than the Sony would just be painful to me so I am starting to wonder whether there have been changes to production of the 7506 and in fact, the ones we have are indeed, different.
Solderdude is also genius at reading specs and graphs and said that the comments that I wrote about the Sony tied up with what he was seeing on specs/graphs.
I looked around on the good old Internet and reviews of them are extremely variable so it does make me wonder whether we are listening to the same headphone.
I must admit, now after reading your review, I'm really curious about the treble being stronger on the 661's than the Sony!!!
It'll make me crawl up the wall if it is!!! ;-)
Ian
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Post by PinkFloyd on Aug 30, 2011 19:38:42 GMT
Hi Marcus, welcome to the forum! Nice write up on the HD-661 I would tend to disagree with you not trying them on a "high end" rig, there is no law that states a cheap pair of headphones should ONLY be paired with a cheap system. At the end of the day, it has nothing to do with the cost or the "brand" of equipment, it is all about the synergy. Take the K-701 (for example), VERY few amps bring out the best in them.... you could throw a £50 amp at them, that just happens to have the synergy, and they could perform amazingly.... similarly, you could drive them with a £5,000 wankfest of a thing and they sound like absolute shite We have all found here that there is no such thing as low, mid, high end.... those are only terms which really mean cheap, not so cheap and darned expensive. A £10,000 amplifier (for example) won't sound £9,900 "better" than a £100 amp (as soon as you get past £100 in the head amp world the law of diminishing returns kicks in) and, in some instances (dependant on the actual design of the 10K amp) the £100 amp may actually sound better. I have NEVER "grouped" equipment into price categories as I feel that it is a flawed approach.... all this crap about "upgrading" to another level.... it's mostly brainwashing from the marketing men... this is especially true in the headphone world where a GOOD, synergistic "budget" system can easily outperform a badly put together mega buck wankfest of glowing bottles and python like interconnects. With a loudspeaker based system you can "generally" say that the more you pay the better the SQ but this is not so with a headphone based setup. Please try the HD-661 with a Project sunrise headphone amp and a warm CD player (Marantz CD17 KI for example) it totally changes the signature of the HD-661. Then try with something like an "ipod" into a Banzai morph and, yes, the "highs" are back again Try that same ipod (lossless files) into a Neco V2 (with water towers) and we are back to smooth again...... I can't possibly try all the different combos with my sources and amp collection as it would take me months BUT, I can assure you, that there will be an amp out there that is a perfect partner for the HD-661... could be a cheap one, could be an expensive one. This idea that "one" cannot possibly plug a cheap pair of 'phones into ones "high end" system is daft! Why not? If it is a truly good front end and synergistic amplification for the HD-661 then you will hear what the HD-661 are REALLY capable of Superlux do not state, anywhere in the manual, that "the HD-661 is only to be used with cheap gear and shitty MP3 files" so try them with a few pricier amps as well as a few more budget priced amps..... you may hit the jackpot and find an amp in your armoury which brings out their sweet spot Mike.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2011 20:41:57 GMT
Actually, come to think of it Mike, I forget that I use the IPod into the Neco with the towers so that's probably why I haven't had a problem with the 681 without filter. I've been using it like that for 6 months because I lost it in the move. (or someone nicked it)
In fact, it's rather good from the Neco. I also forget that we're using in many cases, similar amping which may account for similarities in descriptions.
Marcus, I fought with the K701 for ages and could never really get it to a sound I could accept for different music. However, Mike assembled a Panda for it and had the output impedance at 120 ohms and for me, that helped it enormously.
Another that helped it but not as revealing was the Presonus hp4 would you believe? A cheap amp but was ok with K701.
Could be the same with the 661. I have the Sony here with me and I tried it again after reading your review. For me, it's tilted to the top quite strongly too!
However, the Neco doesn't pull it down for me Mike. Obviously not for you either. I can't imagine a sound even more top edged than that!
Ian
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Post by marcusd on Aug 31, 2011 6:07:34 GMT
Actually one can stick a headphone into any socket and see what comes out lol.. that is why forums like this exist because we do a lot of things in the name of 'science'. I agree 100% on that and love doing it on a regular basis. However for the lux given my target reading audience (unlucky punters who come to the site) is from a 'youth culture' I have to bear in mind these guys use ipods, cowons and headphone porta amps and not say higher end systems so I stuck to that angle. Over here most people who buy the lux are those who maybe try once out of curiosity or those for whom the Superlux is all they can afford such as college kids etc. The ones that can afford higher end usually move on the lux cans pretty quick. not to say they didn't enjoy them but their Ed8's still dominate haha.. even an Ed8 is too high end for me in terms of price to performance. Looking at you guys though its kind of fun to get a very different perspective on different markets and tastes so thanks for having me here! As for the Sony, nope flatter is not more balanced IMHO hehe.... flatter mids and highs - making it somewhat louder in this area but I just found the experience with the 7506 slightly more refined cheesewire than the HD661's which was super harsh and splashy with some genres like techno. Deadmau5 was great, Skrillex was exhausting. I would still buy the HD661 over a Sony though - if you get the right genres and right quality its more involving. Also looking at the supplied graph comparing the 661 and the 7506 they have indeed tuned the volume of the HD661 up a notch at the lower end. I also got to note that the Superlux HA-3D amp (used to sync the testing) is in my mind a bright amp which I did say at the end I would prefer the C&C X02 amp since it is much darker. Matching this headphone is important. My stock mobile can is the ESW9 so moving between this and the HD661 was like crossing an ocean in sonic presentation. Oh and thanks again for the welcome guys I do enjoy the passion being presented here combined with some intelligent thoughts - I can almost smell the Belfast rain again.... Oh and one more thing - my wife prefers the HH661 to 7506 so that should help you all make your mind up
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2011 8:41:14 GMT
OK Marcus,
Yes, I agree, target audience is something that many tech type guys don't consider in their way of writing. We have some modding genius people on here and it all goes over my head although the results that I've heard have been fantastic.
One thing I really enjoy on RG (but then, I'm probably biased ;-)) is the disregard of cost and focus on sound with the cost being the secondary consideration really.
Also the improvements that are somehow concocted here.
The Sunrise amp is a gorgeous beast with a resemblance to the one valve Chinese crackers - but it has dynamics to die for on a good power supply. As it turns out, good value too.
However, the tech guys here are a nice bunch and talk down to me in a very friendly and easy to understand way!! ;-) in fact, one guy even translates what I describe into tech talk!! Then I don't even understand what I said myself.
Interesting that your wife also prefers the Lux. Women often don't like big sounding bass for some reason. (Well, the women I know!!)
Some of the guys may get theirs today so that'll be interesting. The other thing we seem to be finding with Lux is that they can sound awful when you first get them. I know that there are some tech guys who deny that burn in exists, so I now wonder whether they should buy a new 681b to try. I got one recently for someone and honestly, I was going to send it back as faulty. I wasn't too happy and sent a blast of something loud through it for an hour and when I came back- it was fine. Some tech guys would say it was the state of mind I was in cos I'm a nasty subjectivist, but I had it beside another one on the same amp. I've never known a headphone to change so much at the start. In fact, I wondered whether it was sealed in it's own micro environment and the shock of coming out made them sound nasty!!
I get home on Monday and can't wait to hear them and now, especially with the Sonys.
I have quite a week next week what with the Lux and a newly made up Sunrise!! It's like Christmas.
Hopefully, some guys here will have the Lux now.
Ian
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2011 10:16:46 GMT
. Hopefully, some guys here will have the Lux now. Ian Mine have just arrived! Carefully opened the (well-wrapped) package and straight onto an old CDP running an Isotek burn-in disc on repeat - didn't even listen to them. O.k., told a big fat one there Had a quick listen to two tracks Mark Lanegan with the Soulsavers doing 'Kingdoms of Rain' - sounded great, couldn't hear any particular toppyness and with good strong bass, not 681 bass but strong. I then tried something from Kate Bush's recent album "Director's Cut" and the track 'Flower of the Mountain'. This was originally an Abbey Road recording , dark and warm. I don't know what it is about the bass on this track, but on every pair of headphones I've got it sounds really deep, yes, but kind of one-note, boomy as well. I don't know if it's the type of bass or the sheer amount or the extremely low frequency or what (probably Ian would know) but as I say none of my headphones were able to 'resolve' it - until now!! Yee-ha. I can hear the bass player plucking individual notes on this track now, and it sounds great. O.K., its now burning in - I'll give it at least 75-100Hrs then start listening for real. I think I'm going to have happy ears
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Post by mrarroyo on Aug 31, 2011 10:22:13 GMT
marcusd I look forward to reading your comparison to the ATH-ESW9 which I happen to have.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2011 10:57:15 GMT
Hi All, Postie was very early this morning and brought me my 661s about 10.00 . I'm listening to them now as I type this, female voice on Best Audiophile Voices II through V (Get me through December) and I like what I'm hearing. I think it might be a bit 'trebley' but not to the point of spoiling the music. This is straight out of the box and at outside temperatures as they've not even been given time to warm up to the room temp. Track 2 on now, Saleena Jones, and it still sounds good to me. I'm listening to FLAC files through FLACplayer on my iPod Touch through a portable C-Moy via one of Mike's 'dock to jack' leads. I now plan to connect them to my Beresford DAC with a cushion between the pads and let them blast away all day in preparation to a good listen tonight. Any comments guys, get them in early as I have a busy afternoon in front of me And yes, the next track, Close to You, by a higher pitched female voice, is inclined to be a little bit OTT at the top end - we'll see how they bed in - but they do seem to allow notes to hang in the air, as they fade away, for a noticably longer time than I recall. Cheers for now, Dave.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2011 13:52:36 GMT
Dave,
By notes 'hanging in the air' do you mean the bass is hanging on or is flabby? Or are you more aware of studio reverb? The different 'overhangs' mean the opposite in terms of resolution.
If the bass hangs around, that's not so good but if you're aware of reverb on singers' voices, then that's really good.
Sometimes, on a really good setup, reverb on singers voices can sound very synthetic and not natural. It can be poorly done in the recording and sounds 'electric'.
That means the headphone is distinguishing low level detail well if you're aware of it.
Ian
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Post by marcusd on Aug 31, 2011 14:13:22 GMT
marcusd I look forward to reading your comparison to the ATH-ESW9 which I happen to have. Challenge accepted haha but not my review sadly headfonics.com/2011/04/top-ear-review-audio-technica-ath-esw9/I think the esw9 is the polar opposite to the HD661 in terms of the similar headphones I have. I do have a woody 325i coming back from the carpenters shop and I will do a separate thread on that also. If the notes are hanging would you say attack and decay is a tad slow on the HD661? I might go back and check that if this is correct.
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