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Post by PinkFloyd on Sept 7, 2011 22:35:14 GMT
Thanks Mike, I feel better for knowing that ;D. Another crack like that and I'll report you to the mods ;D Dave. Jesus man, you're not having much luck with these are you I'll send you over my pair (with cables)...... Please send the iffy pair back to me and I'll check the cables out. Please don't threaten me with the "mods".... I promise to be good Take care man
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2011 23:28:34 GMT
I am now having my first quiet listen to these SLs, with approx. 36 hours under their belt. ( I have deliberately NOT read Frans write up until I have fired all sorts at these over some time) I've popped on some of Alexs special rips via a Corsair with USB injector/laptop/foobar/NG27. I'm suddenly wondering how I managed to plug a flipping car into the USB I digress. So my first impressions are; 1) They don't half grip tight 2) They have a nice tight, clean and solid balance. 3) This could be the first closed headphone that I really like! I have quickly compared to the cans here; PortaPro, PX200, PAA-1, Lidl noise cancelling, NO COMPETITION, the SLs have them all stonked. The others little niggles/imperfections become glaring crappiness in comparison. I haven't tried against the 560 OvII yet or the at-home big hitter contenders. I must also compare against my other SL HD662B. If pushed to voice criticism at this early stage, I could say that very deep bass is a little separated from the whole and a little monotone. Female voices, at higher volumes can be a little raspy BUT it is early days, well, a day and a half actually! Overall, excellent so far. Oh, and the sweet spot for me at the moment seems to be the usuall low slung and slightly forward position.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2011 13:51:56 GMT
Ooooo, you are awful ........
I've had the telephone call. Mine has arrived. Some serious listening tonight!!!
I can't wait to get the them low slung and forward myself.
Ian
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2011 16:21:08 GMT
Got them!!!! They are nice looking headphones, I must say. I think that I have a pin head since they're not a bad fit for me. My ears fit comfortably inside the cups and I've had a quick listen.
I won't say too much 'cos I haven't heard enough but it has a very different tone to the M50 and some similarity with the 7650.
If you guys with orchestral stuff have a listen, I found the sound very different.
I'll have a lot more listening with different sources.
Ian
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2011 16:40:29 GMT
I've found a note from the Mail Service saying I have to go to the post office to pick my parcel because "it doesn't fit in the mailbox", no comments.... oh! that they are only open in the mornings.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2011 17:05:41 GMT
I'm such a silly sod sometimes........ I have been listening to the radio on the 661 to listen to the voice sound and I found it a bit disturbing. I couldn't work it out. Voices didn't focus and there was a strange colouration so I tuned into a classical station and it sounded like the orchestra was playing in an empty hall. Switching to other headphones cured it. Even the 7506 focused better. I really couldn't understand it. In the end, I checked the plugs and found that the jack plug hadn't gone fully home and you get this strange 'hollow' sound. Once I put the plug in properly, everything snapped into focus. It's always the daft, simple things isn't it? Ian
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2011 18:22:48 GMT
Ooooo, you are awful ........ I've had the telephone call. Mine has arrived. Some serious listening tonight!!! I can't wait to get the them low slung and forward myself. Ian Well, Mike did say abuse them like you normally would
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2011 18:39:31 GMT
Hi Ian, (and Mike please take note after your earlier comments ), FWIW I got exactly the same effect with my 'dodgy' original lead but didn't like to say anything because I felt numptie enough as it is without admitting that I didn't push it in far enough - come to think of it, that's been the story of my life but that's for another day That also explains why I pushed harder with the replacement lead, so ner!! Dave
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2011 19:08:33 GMT
Except my plug was at the amp end!! I didn't push the Jack plug hard enough into the amp so it was 3/4 in. It wasn't the connection to the headphone.
It doesn't half give a funny effect. It's like you hear all of the room acoustic and no signal.
Ian
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Post by pete on Sept 8, 2011 19:52:53 GMT
Thanks pinkfloyd (sorry I dont know your name) for the review, I was wondering what those were like
Great to see so many pics too, just what a good review should have.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2011 19:57:35 GMT
Hi Ian, Yep, that's what I heard - at first I thought I was listening to a track where someone had forgotten to turn on the artiste's mike, just the backing was coming through with the artiste's voice very feint in the background. Hi Mike, Very sorry but I've only just seen your post offering to take the original lead back, for which, many thanks and sorry for being late in responding. It is totally unnecessary, I've got a new one on it's way - cheapy but a good quality (= expensive ?) one seems to be difficult to find and I suspect these phones deserve a dcent lead. The supplied lead is capable of giving a good connection with the plastic clip in place but it is very sensitive to movement, not rustling, just making and breaking. I keep sneaking a little listen on the short lead but it's not very convenient with my lay out and I really rate them very highly. ATM my favourite phones are th 681s that Frans 'filtered and re-leaded for me but I think they've now got a rival . Cheers, Dave. PS I don't know whether I should tell you this but I'm beginning to feel at home here on RG - thanks to Puffin for recommending you - my banishment from AoS was lifted some time ago and I've received two PMs from their Mods remarking that I've been very quiet on there - now you know why . Cheers, Dave.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Sept 8, 2011 20:47:28 GMT
I'm really glad to hear that Dave and am happy that you are enjoying the joint. I STILL can't believe how helpful everybody is here... a real nice bunch of blokes and we really have a common interest "music".... I would be happy to meet ANY of you guys for a pint knowing that we would have a lot to talk about.... I wouldn't feel uncomfortable at all. Most of us are on the same wave, non pretentious "realists" who say it as they see it and I am like that in "face to face" everyday situations too.... I have no time for exclusitivity or people who think they are better than their next door neighbour because they drive a more expensive car etc. Those people have a PROBLEM, their idea of living is to "outdo" everyone around them.... very shallow stuff. I think the beauty of this place is that we all look out for each other instead of trying to "outdo" each other and that's the way it SHOULD be (both online AND off).... Moderation? Not necessary when you have a group of people who share an interest in something.... Censorship? Not necessary unless you are a despot with a large ego or an agenda. Thanks to every single person here who have PROVED that a forum can be run without tyranny and oppression.... I like the joint too Dave
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2011 20:54:31 GMT
It was when I saw photographs on here when I realised I'm not the only ugly bugger around. Ian
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2011 21:04:27 GMT
I have no wish to spoil the 'group hug' mood' that is developing but Ian, I suggest you dont take a vote on that ^^ ;D ;D . Dave.
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Post by funk1969 on Sept 8, 2011 21:28:47 GMT
Soon the HD661 should arrive. I am curious...
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Post by PinkFloyd on Sept 8, 2011 21:36:04 GMT
Soon the HD661 should arrive. I am curious... Has Frans shipped them?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2011 8:12:20 GMT
O.K. guys, here's my tuppence worth . . . SUPERLUX HD 661 REVIEWPackagingReally love the packaging, much better than the 681. Like the way the phones are presented on a red backing which turns out to be the carry bag. Clever. ErgonomicsReally like the wing-system, makes it easy for me to get a good fit. Noticed if you hold the phones up so they are vertical the capsules are angled slightly. The capsules/earpads don’t look that big but my huge lugs fit in them quite nicely. As others have pointed out, the clamping force out of the box is ferocious! The vinyl pads are a huge improvement over the 681’s and I find them very comfortable. If I had bought these phones and there was an SQ improvement to be had in buying the Beyer velour pads, then I would maybe think about changing them, but I think they are comfortable as is, and I don’t get any of that ‘hot ‘n’ sweaty’ feeling after 20-30 mins like the 681 vinyl’s, so a big improvement. The (long) cable, the capsules, the wings and the rods are all very, very microphonic, much more so that the 681’s. I have 5 other closed back designs, JVC HARX-700, JVC HARX-500, Sony MDR-XB 700, Panasonic RP-HTX7 and Audio Chi W4, and none of them are even remotely as microphonic as the 661’s. I don’t really find this such a big deal though as once the music starts you don’t really hear the microphonics, and honestly, how often do you fiddle around with the cable, capsules, rods etc, when the music is playing? One thing about the little clip that connects the jack to the ‘jill’. I always thought one side advantage of having leads which connect to the capsules via a jack was that if you stood on the cable as you were getting up, (and I do it regularly, especially after a few “magic cokes” ) the cable would disconnect from the headphones at the jack rather than damaging the soldered connection inside the capsule. Now surely if you strengthen that jack connection, you make it more likely to damage the connection inside the capsule at the solder pads?? Just wondering what others think? I like that you get a long lead for home use and a short lead for portable. That’s nice. They seem very well put together and I get the impression they are tough, and would last a long time and put up with some punishment. Overall, the 661’s look smart and classy, cans that you wouldn’t be afraid to wear in public. Sound QualityThis is an area where I am pretty inexperienced. I have not owned any of the ‘big hitters’ of the headphone world like K601/701, HD 600/650, in other words none of the top end cans. I would also defer to the real experts like Mike, Ian, Frans, etc in their ability to describe the details of the 661’s sound quality and how it stacks up against A - it’s price rivals and B - against top end phones. I will however give a few of my dim-witted observations for what they’re worth. I burnt the cans in for around 100 hours with an Isotek burn-in disc and around 30 hours of loud music before listening. BassI mentioned in an earlier post that the bass on Kate Bush’s Flower of the Mountain (from Director’s Cut) was excellent. This is a warm and woolly Abbey Road recording but the bass was really fast and tuneful, as opposed to boomy and one-note like it sounds in all my other closed cans. Well, that fast tuneful bass is still there I’m glad to say. And that just about sums up the bass for me in this can, not an enormous amount (like the 681), but plenty, with good speed and of good quality. MidsI can’t say much about these. I think this is where Ian and the others could speak more intelligently than I. I don’t seem to get ‘mids’. IIRC most vocals are in the mid range and the vocals on these phones seem fine to me. HighsAt the moment with around 130 hours on them, I am in two minds about the highs. On some tracks I think to myself, ‘Yes Frans’ filter would benefit these cans’ and then on others the highs seem fine. They seem borderline between slightly too much and just fine. Maybe this will change with more hours? I know one thing, they are much more listenable than unmodded 681’s. Even after prolonged burn in the unmodded 681’s had far too much HF for extended listening sessions, but I had a four hour session last night and as long as I stayed away from music with lots of HF energy I was fine. I have noticed that they sound especially good with well recorded material, so stuff like Sylvian, Steely Dan, Yello, E.S.T. etc., sound absolutely great. They also sound really good straight out of my Sansa Clip+. ConclusionI think Superlux have stepped up a gear with these cans. In every way whether it’s with packaging, looks or most importantly, SQ, these cans are very good. I also think they are the most 'open sounding' closed back cans I've heard. If in fact it is correct that these will sell for around £30 then I think they are a complete and utter no-brainer. P.S.Superlux seems to me to have cornered the market for ‘Giant-killer’ headphones. They have a range of cans that give HUGE SQ for really not a lot of money. With that in mind, I for one would love to hear what they could come up with at the £100, £200 or £300 price points. Maybe a Superlux SLX1000?? Can you imagine how good a £300 Superlux headphone would sound?? Jeff
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2011 9:55:48 GMT
My 661 are in da house!! I'm softening them a little with music before listing.
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Post by funk1969 on Sept 9, 2011 21:20:12 GMT
The HD661 is just in. I am not sure if this one is burned in or not. I am now trying it with "Peter Bjorn And John's album "Writer's Block". The first three tracks if I may add. Next up The Who's "Underture" from the album "Tommy" I just want to get a feel for the sound for now. After that Kodo's "Ibuki" from the album "Heartbeat Kodo 25th Anniversary". "Underture" just started.
Set up: Philips CD690 + Behringer SRC2496 (24 bits; 96kHz; gain 0, volume 2/10) + HD661
For now: I am pleasantly surprised given my personal benchmark is the K240 DF. (I have two DF's, that is how much I like that headphone.)
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2011 8:15:23 GMT
Hi ...... Pipe and slippers man here!! Maybe this should be my avatar - I look as mad as the hatter!! The closed headphone market has always been a difficult area for me since they are designed in a way that has some strengths as well as introduce some real problems. So for me, the closed headphone has been a long search for something that suits me without the nasties that a closed headphone has a tendency to introduce; even good ones. So for me, closed headphones are a kind of compromise and yet, I also desperately want a good pair for home use because I’m often sitting in the front room with the wife watching TV (or my daughter) while I’m listening to something. I use headphones extensively at work and I’m always concerned that people think if they’re being used in a musician’s environment, then they must be good. That really isn’t so because they are being used for a totally different purpose. For instance, I could have them on for a long time while concentrating on something difficult and not be aware of the sound being too loud (Life volume) because I’m concentrating. Therefore, they need to not be too strident because I’ll damage my hearing. Again, because I’m concentrating, they need to be strong because absent mindedly, I’ll take them off and forget that I’ve parked them on a chair and sit on them!! (That’s always been a problem for me as Mike knows!!) I’m also a lazy sod, so instead of going to another room to find a position in a recording, I take them off and sound will be sent through very loud; in effect, using them like speakers in order to indentify ‘correction’ points and points to start and re-record etc. where I can indicate with (often rude) hand signals. So for a work situation, the requirements are, not too much top, loud, robust, cups that turn and act like speakers and ……. Flattering to play into. (although engineers understand this and often send a ‘rosy’ sound to play into and then put it back to normal later!!) In fact, that helps musicians play better. That’s quite a requirement for a headphone and for me, it’s been the Beyer DT150 for a long time. However, take that same DT150 home and it’s a totally different situation. Stick them into a home amp and they can become bass monsters with no treble. Therefore the very tool that I feel is right for work isn’t really too good for home imo; although many do use them. For me, I need something sharper that gives a bit more ‘glitter’ to the sound with a fast bass slam. This is why I have a problem with closed headphones…… there aren’t that many that I feel are good. I’m spoilt for choice as far as open headphones go, but the closed headphone market is a killer. When Mike offered to send out Superlux HD661’s I was really looking forward to hearing them since it was being described as a Sony 7506 match and a ‘professional’ headphone. This term ‘professional’ is bandied about too much as a sales thing imo and in fact too many products described as ‘pro’ wouldn’t be touched by a ‘pro’ for various reasons. So, (thanks to Mike) I got a reference Sony 7506 in order to compare with the Superlux and started to break them in etc. These are also described as ‘pro’ studio headphones so they have interested me for a while and Mike negotiated a stunning deal on them. When I heard them, first listen …… awful. I hated the nasty, gritty, edgy, thin, mean, painful sound emanating form the cups. However, I loved the way that they were put together. The cups swivel, they go damned loud and they pass the sit test. So I could see the ‘pro’ tag as being legitimate except for that awful sound. Anything above 14Khz is rolled off, there is some deepish bass but their voicing was painful. This made me feel that they are not aimed at a musician but at engineers much moreso. I’ll say why later. Mike had been running the HD661’s so I put them on and I found the sound a little strange if I’m honest. I checked that everything was Ok and swapped headphones back and forth but there was something about the sound that was flattering in one way but also not quite right for me. I am aware of Frans’ description of the treble but it wasn’t that that I felt was awful, it was something else. I compared to the 7506 and it does have some similarities in sound for sure. In fact, if you took the lower half of the frequency out, I would say it was very close. In comparison, I feel as though the HD661 is a warmer version of the 7506. So, I went back to the 7506 to try and find out exactly what its strengths were so I could work out what I was uncomfortable about on the 661. Working with just your ears is not exacting and so I wanted to be sure that my gut feeling wasn’t just me being daft. As luck would have it, I’d been away for two weeks and the Sonys had been permanently going for that time and I know some people are going to say I’m wrong, but I now felt that they were slightly (slightly) looser sounding and not quite so edgy. Also, they were imaging way better than at the start. (If you don’t agree about this idea, don’t worry about it – it’s only me) So, really concentrated listening on the Sony showed that it’s still edgy (so turn it down) but ….. it is so analytical that it’s disgustingly laser like. That confirmed to me that the Sony is an engineers ‘tool’ rather than a home headphone unless you are a detail freako!! In fact, orchestral recordings show the voicing (except the very top) to be spot on. The orchestral tone from this is unbelievably real with sounds from different parts of the hall being a doddle to pick out. Orchestral and acoustic is delightful from the Sony but rock/pop is disgusting and shows all the faults that the morons who mix them add. IMO, a home headphone doesn’t need to be like this because music is no longer a pleasure, but an analysis. The 661 has this part in its treble response but there is a problem. It’s lower down imo. I felt that the headphones didn’t snap into focus properly and it was due either to a cup reflection (which is common in the design) or there was something amiss in the FR. I don’t fully believe the FR graph if I’m honest or, the Sony one that Superlux tout has been tweaked to make it look like the Superlux. On the graph, there is a little suck out in the upper bass/lower mids. I’m not sure if this is what I hear or something else is going on. Now I’ll be frank about the sound – for me (only me) it has the 7506 similarity in the treble which is balance by a strong attacking bass so it feels much less strident, but in between there is a colouration that I find hard to get on with. It is in the upper bass or lower mids, where the tone seems slightly ‘off’ to me. It also feels that the three main frequency areas aren’t properly integrated. It has good bass, it has good treble (with the Sony characteristic) is has mids that are ok, but there is an emphasis somewhere that makes it a difficult listen for me. (and it’s not the treble that Frans describes for me) So back to the Sony and I felt ………. Relief. This sounded more natural to me, so I went back and forth between approx 20 headphones to retune my head and do it again. Still there. If I get something that has what I feel something ‘off’ in the timbre I have to compare acoustic and voice. (Voice is another aspect that needs to be good in a studio for talkback – I hate boom but love bass. (Work that one out!!)) Then I found what (in my head and ears) was the problem. Voices have a ‘buzz’ in them and it’s not that low because womens’ voices also contain the same buzz or emphasis in the bass tones of their voices. I listened very carefully to mens’ and womens’ voices and it was there where I was hearing problems. I then went to orchestral and once I had heard the voice tone and therefore knew where to focus, I could hear it in the music. Going back to the Sony which is much better voiced in this repect really showed it. There is some kind of colouration that is in the ‘voice’ region that interferes with music listening and results in what I first heard as a ‘lack of focus’. The sound is fine, it’s ok. It’s flattering on pop/rock etc but there is this hollowness in its sound that I find hard to live with. I don’t give up easily with headphones so I’ll keep trying to accustomise myself to the sound but for me, the HD681 is superior. My ears also make me wonder about the accuracy of the FR graphs that are being touted. Yes, the treble is similar to the Sony but the rest is definitely not. IMO the Sony is better but not as musical. It is analytical and I would be very careful recommending anyone to get them. However, I think I’d be more careful about recommending the 661 to people. Given that I'm hearing an emphasis on top of voices, I wonder whether it's a boost in that region or perhaps a 'suck out' so some presence is missing? The good bits – It looks stunning. It has a pretty good build. It has good(ish) bass quality. It’s flattering on rock/pop music. Better at loud volume. The bad bits – an emphasis in the lower mid or upper bass? A lack of focus in the image. A voicing problem. The cups are a bit rigid. It's not really what I would call a 'pro' headphone. So my search for a good closed headphone goes on. Currently, I use the M50 if I want bass and the Senn HD25 if I want a balanced listen, or the Senn HD250 II for low slam and clean top. I wish one would do the lot. (I find the half-open DT990 a really good compromise in this respect) I’ll keep listening and see if I change my mind!!!!! I don't think that this is a 7506 killer tbh Superlux. Check the FR again ....... and take cup reflections into consideration. That may be what I'm hearing. However, £30. It's OK at that price I suppose, although I think the Senn 201/2 may be better voiced. Please remember, this is just me, not you. You could well find otherwise. Ian
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2011 8:53:25 GMT
Gosh ^^^ - awestruck . Ian, that is so detailed!!!. I plant to print it out and read it whilst listening to my 661s to see if I can 'educate' my ears a little. I suspect a report like that is what Superlux were hoping for when they offered the 12 sets to Mike. Nice one!! Dave.
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Post by marcusd on Sept 10, 2011 9:10:20 GMT
Good review Ian, I think you encountered the same issues as me and my 7506 was battered and bruised and burn in for many years. The HD661 grab you and are more 'involving' initially but somewhat brighter in certain areas and the mid-bass emphasis on the HD661 does indeed sound detached. In the end I found my well burned in 7506 a tad more refined than the HD661 but for those that pop them on their head for the first time the HD661 may be the one that grabs the attention.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2011 9:15:05 GMT
Mine have over 100hrs on them now so here are my impressions.
Build quality for the price is very good, they have to much gripping force on my ears but could be made more comfortable with a little bending of the upper frame.
These are the only HP`s i have that make my ears sweat, and this occurs within 15mins of donning.
I like the bass, nice and tight punchy and well defined but lacking in depth.
Top end is good, cymbals work well.
Now the major problem for me is the mid range and imaging.
The sound seems to be travelling along a drain pipe to get to my ears. I think the sound stage is very limited, male voice (Leonard Cohen) unusual voice and good for assessing mid-range, sounds awful on these compared to the moded 681`s and Portapro`s (the only fair comparison i can make). I actually find the SQ quiet tiring after a relatively short listening period.
These HP`s are not "my cup of tea" much prefer my 681`s, and unlike Chris i think at around £20 the Portapro`s are far superior in all departments.
Someone spoke of the cable becoming unattached, there is a clip provided to stop this happening, which works well on the pr i have.
The cable as many have mentioned, is NOT to be touched whilst listening, just lightly tapping it produces drum beats in the cups.
OK, are they good value for £30, for those who do like the SQ, then i would say yes, but give me a £20 pr of Portopro`s, and i would be much happier.
Mick.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2011 9:23:30 GMT
That's a really good description of what I'm getting Mick!! Thank goodness for that. I thought it was me. Hi Dave - don't take my word as gospel. I have a pin head and look for minutia. Marcus, I can really see what you mean by 'musicality' on the 661 and the non-musicality of the 7506. If anything, the 661 has kind of shown me that the 7506 isn't quite as bad as I had first thought. I still don't like the steel in the top, but I have found them to be very analytical and the voicing is basically spot on. As a work 'phone I guess it's useful to judge tonal quality since it is very good with orchestral except for the awful 'rasp' on brass in particular. If that was toned down, they would be rather good for home use. The 661 is impressive as long as you consider £30 but for me, as a serious headphone, it's not quite right tonally. Actually Mick got it with his description!! That's what I hear. My gut feeling is that not one, but two filters are needed: a) it wouldn't hurt to take a bit of the edge down although it's ok. b) check the mid area - voices in particular. imo if a voice is 'off' in a headphone, then something is wrong. Headphone makers should work from voice sound and then tweak the rest imo. We are much more sensitive in this region so it always puzzles me why headphone makers say things like built from the 'top down for extra clarity' or 'bottom up for better bass.' The mids need to be voiced correctly since we are much more sensitive in that area and actually, that's the part of the sound I listen to when turning up an amp to focus the sound and then listen to the bass and treble afterwards!! Frans' 661 filter could well be the answer to the 7506 imo. It's more worthwhile to 'hone' these for home use than the 661's. The reason I say that is the 7506 are an analytical 'tool' that with a toned down peak would be an accurate home monitor headphone which perhaps more people would like than the 661. By the way, the BBC voice sound isn't perfect, but it's one I know. It's 'chesty' and can be a bit nasally sounding but shouldn't have a fat bass resonance in it or a 'buzzing' in sympathy like I get from the 661. Ian
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2011 13:34:39 GMT
Hey! You guys all beat me to it Mine have just passed the 100 hours mark as well and I was having another good listen. They have definitely changed since my last audition. On the plus side the bass, especially the lower limits, have become more tuneful, with less thud and more thwack. I also find the high frequencies OK, although they can start to get a little ragged at higher volumes (but I am a bit of a volume animal, probably heading for early deafness ). This is most definitely the negative point for me and has only become obvious after the current amount of burn in. I think before it was a vagueness before but now seems to be an over-emphasised segment of the FR. I was thinking pertaining to the upper mid-range but would certainly bow to superior knowledge on that one. Just too much energy here perhaps? Back to Micks point on the Portapros, this really shows how we hear differently or require different responses from our headphones. I'd still use the 661 in preference to them, which I now find unusable in their standard form (surgery is immanent). I have yet to compare the 661 against my mildly modded 662 which could be interesting. Against the Senny PX200 I find they are opposites, the 661 having this over zealous upper mid and the PX200 having a boxy, reluctant response here. So currently, at lower volumes I'd call these a fun headphone, plenty of bass and decent treble with ok-ish mids. At my more common listening levels the mid range problems do glare somewhat too much and if you couple that to a less than good quality recording can get rather nasty. I have now compared them to my HD560ovII, which are also far from perfect, and they're certainly shown for what they are here, i.e. a low priced headphone. A giant killer they would seem not to be at this point. A very affordable alternative, yes! Edit; as a foot note I've been giving these a run straight out of my Fuze+. They have a better overall balance than all the others I have tried direct.
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