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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2011 7:10:16 GMT
No one said that the V3 can't drive them . Of course it can.
You stated that you were giving up on valves and Claus suggested a cheaper option than the A1 which I suggested is rather expensive.
I agreed with him and know that the Mieir amps do in fact sound good with Beyers. How do I know? Well, I've owned two of them. Experience.
However, if you're getting an A1 , great. Let us all know what it's like because not many of us have one.
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jokelo
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Post by jokelo on Jun 26, 2011 8:48:07 GMT
What Meier amp you had experience with? Which one can you recommend from their site? I have to take a closer look on those... They look funny, but so does A1 (I think A1 looks awfully ugly to be honest...) Elysion said that v3 could not be a very good match with 600ohm headphones... Maybe I'm too picky about other people's comments...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2011 10:14:08 GMT
Jokelo, you strike me as a little inexperienced and one thing that you learn from many hi fi sites is that people find it difficult sometimes, to agree.
However certain things do seem to link and there can be agreement with certain items because it is actually quite obvious and with others it's a matter of taste. There is no 'best'.
Christian is quite right about the V3 and 600 ohm headphones. They don't put enough out to drive them properly. You'd hear sound but it's likely that transient sounds would become crushed since you'd need a lot of headroom available for 600 ohms.
£900 is a lot of dosh on an amp you haven't heard. What would you do if you didn't like it?
I'm terrible remembering names but the amps I've had from Meier have all been rather good, although first impressions make you feel underwhelmed; especially if you're inexperienced with amps.
With his, I felt at first they were not loud enough. In fact, the gain was lowered but there was plenty of headroom, so what they were doing, they did well and because of the gain being sensible, (I suppose) they ran really with no noise.
I had an amp that he made for Headfi as an anniversary edition (no longer) available) and one after that for some anniversary. They were special editions. I've also had two of his portables - the excellent Porta Corda and the Move. All great amps so Claus really does know what he's talking about here because he has also experienced Meier amps with Beyers.
However, this is just a pointer. Do some reading here and on Headfi (for example) and you'll get a feel for what people regard as good equipment.
I currently use V1, V2, V8, V Can, Panda, Aune, Neco, Bravo (type) amps, IBasso, Fiio amongst others.
All have pros and cons. One isn't the 'best'. It really depends what headphone sound/type you prefer.
I use Senn 650, 600, 250, 25, px100 and 200, AT ad700 and A900, Beyer DT770, AKG K 601 and 701 Grado SR 80i and 125i, vJays, c-jays, Portapro plus others. I'm a rich maniac who enjoys the hobby and comparing my thoughts with what others say about products!!
Again, the variations are enormous. The reason for a great deal of this is 'advice' from others.
With lots of discussion/reading, you start to find out who on a forum kind of hears the same way as you and therefore you get a sense of what may be good for you.
I get the feeling that you're going to spend a lot of dosh on something without audition on the word of people here. You may be disappointed in that case.
For a start, I'm not sure anyone here has experience with the A1 so quite sensibly, they're giving you a steer for something cheaper that they know sounds good.
However, if you get an A1 I'll be the first to read your review if you write one!!!
My advice is be careful if you are spending that sort of money without hearing it.
I'm currently watching a thread here on a DIY amp which sounds absolutely fantastic. I'm not competent with a soldering iron any longer because I'd strain my eyes and one of my hands has a finger that's damaged. However, that amp could be a solution for many people who can't settle for one amp. It's actually configurable.
I'm waiting for it to go global and commercial!! (that was a joke - it won't happen!!) However, it does show that even very experienced listeners feel the need to be able to configure an amp to their own needs. Frans is very clever in what he is doing here.
RG is about good sound but not big bucks necessarily.
I hope this reads ok - I'm not on a computer.
I wish you luck, but one reason for going off topic could be that you're searching for the Holy Grail and I'd hate to send you on the wrong road.
Ian
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Post by clausdk on Jun 26, 2011 10:47:34 GMT
Like Ian said, we are just trying to stear you away from throwing your money away, if you really want to bleed, look at a brand like "Rudistor" or Ray Samuels, they are both quite expensive amps, but they are also exceptionel good at what they do..
Lehman is also a brand that has an outstanding reputation..
A company like GDaudio also makes very good amps..
To me the T1 is not so picky about amps, but it needs power, so lots of the portable ones would not deliver the goods..
I have been through 25+ amps and I will get through more in the future, not that what I got is not good, it is but I just love to hear how different gear sounds toogether..
If you want to save some serious money and can handle a solderiron, a Panda would be a grest solution for the T1, it got loads of power and make a good match with the T1..
If I was in your shoes (or boots) and had fallen i in love with the A1, I would buy the copy to see how well it goes with YOUR taste and if it is tha bomb I would save up for the real thing..
Another thing is what is your source ??
I only ask this because there is a lot of DAC/amps on the marcket today and that might be the best solution for you, as the T1 really deserves a good source and amp, before it really unfolds.
I was a very smiling guy when I heard the T1 with my NFB11 from GDaudio..
But when all comes to an end it is up to YOU and YOUR taste, not mine, elysions or Ians opinions, we just want to help you avoiding disapointment and seeing how frustrated the Xcan V3 has made you, makes that very important, to me at least..
The best thing to do is to attend meetings, in our danish community we make meets and get toogethers very often and we have a great time listening and learning about other stuff than what we got ourselves, it also makes it possible to make new friendships with fellow head-fiers, which to me is one of the best things in this hobby..
All the friendships I have made over the years on different sites also gives me the opportunity to borrow stuff from others.. Which is a great way to save money and not spending lots of money on unknown things..
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elysion
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Post by elysion on Jun 26, 2011 13:12:20 GMT
That Beyer amp is expensive and tbh, if I was contemplating something like that, I'd go for a listen first if possible. If you are really interested, I'd do it like Rabbit has suggested: Get out and find a A1 that you can test before buy. Why not ask a local dealer ("I'll buy only after hearing it").? I can understand you aversion against tube amps. If it doesn't work, it's useless. IMO solid-state amps are really more robust and need less maintenence, but I don't like to live without tube amps. I like both solid-state and tube amps, both have their advantages/disadvantages. If you are looking for just one amp and reliability is the most important point for you, then YES, go for as solid-state amp. Yep, I have no any interest on any valve based gear anymore. Actually have no interest on anything else except that I get a working amp. There is nothing more frustrating than coming late from work, having two three hours time to listen music. Spending half an hour from that opening the amp and putting it back together. Musical enjoyment is totally gone after that. How long I have been trying to get this to work, something like 5 years. What I need now is a reliable amp that matches good with Beyer T1. Amp that I just put on and sit to listen music to relax. How can anyone relax after half an hour hassle with insides first? And without even knowing what is causing it. Considering A1, as it might be perfect partner with T1, Made In Germany (=should mean quality here), no valves. It might be expensive, but I do not care. I'm asking about A1 in this topic here at the first place, as I have no chance to listen it. Which is really shit I know. I won't buy it yet for sure, just considering. I am still fighting with v3. Almost given up, but not quite yet. But so close. So expensive gear has to be considered so well, that I need to do careful thinking about what to do. And I really would like Mike or someone to comment on elysions words about v3 and 600ohm headphones. Have I gone wrong buying T1 to go with v3? If I have, then it helps me to make a decision (that is A1). I have no 600 Ohm 'phones, so can't test with the V3. I was only a guess that some (maybe not all) 600 Ohm 'phones could be difficult to drive with the V3. Don't take me to serious here. I'd ask Frans, Alex or Mike for advice with that. IIRC, Claus told me that the T1's are surprisingly easy to drive for 600 Ohm 'phones, but still they are 600 Ohm's and that's not exactly what the V3 was designed for. Even my K702's (with 62 Ohm) are damn hard to drive. IMO the 250 Ohm Beyers and 300 Ohm Senn's are easier to drive than the 62 Ohm K702. Maybe it's a good idea to get your preferred 'phones first, test them with the V3 and then decide which way you'd like to go in the amp department. I agree that "Made in Germany" is often a sign for quality. But not always. And the Meier Audio amps (for example) aren't made in Germany. IMO the Meier amps are a rip-off, but I don't say they are bad. They are just to costly for what they deliver. Personally, I find the Neco's much more attractive (build quality and price-wise). Maybe the usual suspects in the solid-state department (Panda, AUNE, matrix m-stage etc.) are also worth a closer look. Where do you live, Jokelo? Maybe some of our members are in your region and could help you. If you can compare a few amps/'phones before you buy, it's unlikely that you are tossing money out for the wrong gear. It's all about your taste (not mine). You can't define a taste by looking on the price tag. I'm a bit suprised that you are favouring such expensive gear. The T1 and the A1 aren't the best gear because they are expensive. I'm sure both are quality products, but nobody knows if they are matching your taste. Really, I wouldn't buy such expensive gear without hearing it prior to buying or if that amount of money is no problem to spend for you. Like Claus and Rabbit, I have many headphones and amps. I like to switch between combos and try new combos. I came to the conclusion, that I can't live with just one amp or one pair of 'phones. I need some diversity, but I have also some affectations (that's why I have more than just one Neco amp – I like those amps very much, especially with 250 Ohm Beyer's and 300 Ohm Senn's).
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rowuk
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Post by rowuk on Jun 26, 2011 13:30:26 GMT
Why did you buy the phones? What did you audition them with?
It seems to me if you "only" want a working combo, you audition the combo and then buy it - not buy one bit and then cut and paste until something matches.
Headphones that need an amp safari are not real "low maintenance" units. A tube amp should work better with high impedance phones if that is what it was designed for. Voltage is no problem for them, only current. Another possibility is a good output transformer to match the phones and amp.
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jokelo
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Post by jokelo on Jun 26, 2011 15:28:04 GMT
Oh man how many questions... and thoughts.
I bought T1 without a listen, with thoughts that they would be better than 250ohm DT880 which I liked very much and I was right. They were better.
After this v3 madness I'm living with, I would really want to get an amp that will be working better than my v3.
When putting up any money on any amp, I try to find out which one would be a good match that can produce as good or better sound than v3. Don't get me wrong, I just love the sound my v3 gives with T1. But I just don't want to downgrade from it.
I start repeating myself...
I live in Finland and there ain't no decent hifi stores in the city I live, so that I have very difficult to listen/compare any gear.
My source is Cambridge Audio Azur 640C (V1) that goes to Musical Fidelity A300 amplifier which goes to V3. I am pretty happy but have had thoughts of upgrading my CD player some day. In a few years perhaps, no hurry for that.
Nice to hear so many opinions, because that's what I'm after.
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elysion
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Post by elysion on Jun 26, 2011 16:19:42 GMT
You are not the only RG member from Finland. I've seen a couple of members in the past that have a .fi e-mail address.
If you are a RG member from Finland and reading this thread: Please contact Jokelo to help him.
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mrarroyo
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Post by mrarroyo on Jun 27, 2011 12:25:53 GMT
I know many do not want tube amps and opt for SS. I am not going to discuss the merits of one over the other since to much emotional energy is invested by the members of both camps. What I will say is that many of the SS chips are not available 35 years later. For example I have a nice Technics SU7300 integrated in need of chips which are no longer obtainable, now I will at best have to buy a chip that would be a drop in replacement. However, you can still find replacements for old tubes. Just some food for thought.
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elysion
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Post by elysion on Jun 27, 2011 14:42:52 GMT
I know many do not want tube amps and opt for SS. I am not going to discuss the merits of one over the other since to much emotional energy is invested by the members of both camps. What I will say is that many of the SS chips are not available 35 years later. For example I have a nice Technics SU7300 integrated in need of chips which are no longer obtainable, now I will at best have to buy a chip that would be a drop in replacement. However, you can still find replacements for old tubes. Just some food for thought. The diversity with IC's is much bigger than it was with tubes. Most of our tube amps use the same few tube types. On the other hand, a good manufactured IC will last extremely long (at least if it is operated within specifications). I don't care if a particular amp uses solid-state or tubes. In the end, it's the SQ from that amp that matters. I have both solid-state and tube amps and I think it's a privilege to have both. Both have their advantages/disadvantages. It's very interesting that I like the Neco MOSFET/BOSSFET so much. It's a solid-state amp that can sound quite tubey with some headphones. I like it tubey... thus tubes can't be that bad...
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jokelo
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Post by jokelo on Jul 6, 2011 20:29:23 GMT
Beyer A1 ordered... Decided to go with it.
Got it with 800 euros new. I think it is a horrible price, but I've seen it with much bigger price tag.
And... I have 14 days return policy with it, if I don't like it. So I can test it with my other equipment.
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jokelo
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Post by jokelo on Sept 10, 2011 16:01:32 GMT
Ok. Kept the A1, sold the V3...
As I have been listening to A1 for a while now, I can say it was worth the money. And it is obviously better amp for T1.
Missing my V3 a bit, as it was a really good amp. But have to go on...
Anyway, the end of story for my x-can x-perience. The new beginning...
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Z
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Post by Z on Sept 10, 2011 16:26:43 GMT
A Meier amp is not something you should worry about buying (maybe the nu-force on his site is a different story though) unless it is too expensive for you. The only reason I'd have for not buying one is price and country of origin. I doubt you would be disappointed with a jazz. e-mail jan and ask him if it would drive them. this would surely drive the phones, right members? www.meier-audio.homepage.t-online.de/jazz.htmsend that crazy beyer amp back man. here is jan's email meier-audio@t-online.de
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jokelo
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Post by jokelo on Sept 10, 2011 16:42:09 GMT
What? I just stated I REALLY like A1. I would not send it back or buy anything else in any case. After I have spent 800 euros on an amp I really like, why on earth I would even consider searching something else. Crazy beyer amp? What is so crazy about it? There is nothing crazy about it after I have now used and heard it for about a month.
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Z
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Post by Z on Sept 10, 2011 22:29:48 GMT
didn't see the date. it's rather expensive.
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jokelo
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Post by jokelo on Sept 11, 2011 6:17:54 GMT
didn't see the date. it's rather expensive. Ok. There are lot more expensive amps and I just cannot understand this fuss about beyers price. It ain't cheap for sure but it ain't astronomical either. There seems to be quite wide price range with it, I've seen their price from 800 to 1100 euros here. And for that 800 euros (that is about 700 GBP) I think it is somewhere in the middle of amp market. Beginning to sound like a beyer fan boy here. But more I listen to it, more I like it. I was afraid that it will be too revealing with poorly recorded material as I have plenty of records that can be considered as disastrous when it comes to production. But not heard anything yet that sounds bad. I've thrown in cd re-issues of old cassette rehearsals and demos and they all have been very listenable. It does bring every scratch and pop from recordings to be heard, but I actually like it. It is part of the recording. Sometimes poor production adds life to a recording I think. Today most of the music is just way too overproduced and polished. I thought it was a lot bigger unit, was surprised how small it actually is. And heavy for it's size. Very solid indeed. I just love it.
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mrarroyo
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Post by mrarroyo on Sept 11, 2011 11:35:32 GMT
Glad you are enjoying your amp, just smile and be happy.
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elysion
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Post by elysion on Sept 11, 2011 14:01:39 GMT
Jokelo, if possible (speak: only if YOU want), I'd be very interested to see the innards of the Beyer amp.
I'm also a Beyer fan, I can't stop listening to the DT 990 Pro's.
Beyer makes also surround amps for headphones. I find these amps also very interesting.
BTW: Try to ignore "M", "Z" or "WTF" if he bothers you. He's searching for US made amps and 'phones, but, actually, I can't see much interesting gear in his own armory. Maybe "Z" should buy one of these Meier amps, which are NOT made in Germany, but as usual made in China. I don't say that the Meier amps suck (IMO they have some interesting features), but the Meier amps are certainly a rip-off.
@"Z": It's so simple: If you want US made and don't want to spend much money, then go for a pre-built Project Sunrise amp. Maybe the Koss portaPro's and/or the HD681's would make also a fine and cheap addition to your headphone/amp armory and then you'd have a lot more to tell us than what you usually do...
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Z
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Post by Z on Sept 11, 2011 15:28:15 GMT
Jokelo, if possible (speak: only if YOU want), I'd be very interested to see the innards of the Beyer amp. I'm also a Beyer fan, I can't stop listening to the DT 990 Pro's. Beyer makes also surround amps for headphones. I find these amps also very interesting. BTW: Try to ignore "M", "Z" or "WTF" if he bothers you. He's searching for US made amps and 'phones, but, actually, I can't see much interesting gear in his own armory. Maybe "Z" should buy one of these Meier amps, which are NOT made in Germany, but as usual made in China. I don't say that the Meier amps suck (IMO they have some interesting features), but the Meier amps are certainly a rip-off. @"Z": It's so simple: If you want US made and don't want to spend much money, then go for a pre-built Project Sunrise amp. Maybe the Koss portaPro's and/or the HD681's would make also a fine and cheap addition to your headphone/amp armory and then you'd have a lot more to tell us than what you usually do... i already went the the UHA-6 and am really enjoying it. very punchy.
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elysion
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Post by elysion on Sept 11, 2011 15:43:15 GMT
You don't have much other 'phones and amps to compare them. Glad you enjoy them though.
For only a small amount of money, you could broaden your horizon.
What's so bad about portaPro's or HD-681's? In your case, I'd accept also Mike's offer to send you an amp. What's so bad about having another amp or 'phone? The only thing you would GET is more choice and more experience. Almost nothing to loose on the financial side.
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Post by pandapops on Sept 11, 2011 20:29:42 GMT
It looks like the A1 clone has a PSU based on 7815/7915, if the same it true of the original than I'd bet that the clone with an improved PSU beats the stock original. Simply add you whatever 3rd party fancy 3 pin regulator you want, I found the SPower does a nice job in the NECO MOSFET. Another Ebay seller does the completed PCB with transformer but no case for £55, another does their version for £30 and a third does one with what looks like twice the number of output transistors for £40.
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jokelo
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Post by jokelo on Sept 12, 2011 6:00:51 GMT
Elysion, I have no plans to open up A1. Warranty you know... I suppose it is quite easy to find pictures of A1 opened by Google. Aaah, country of origin... I always try to find something else that is not from China. Beyer seems to be still "handcrafted in Germany" that helped with the decision with A1 and T1. I believe they are a bit more quality build than mass produced China stuff. At least with my experience.
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Post by bravotwohero on Sept 25, 2011 22:00:03 GMT
Hi jokelo
I'm a new member here and this is my first real post, I have a MF X-CAN V3 and have also recently bought a pair of T1's.
I am considering the A1 but I can't seem to find anywhere that would allow me to demo one.
I was wondering if you could tell me what kind of improvments I could expect over the X-CAN V3 and if you think its a worth while purchase for the money.
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jokelo
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Post by jokelo on Sept 28, 2011 16:53:19 GMT
Sound improves on every department.
You get much clearer and tighter bass, you can follow bass a lot more clearly. Every instrument is better separated and more clear and natural. More detailed and controlled sound.
Don't get me wrong, I still think modded V3 is fantastic. But A1 does everything a little better.
On V3 there was some harshness with some records on higher frequencies that are gone with A1. With V3 T1 didn't quite deliver the dynamics and ease with higher volumes, sound did get muddled a bit. A1 gives much better dynamics and no matter how loud (or quiet) I push them they just deliver music clearly.
It is easy to see A1 is designed T1 in mind after you listen to that combo awhile. First I didn't quite found any differences but the sound was different. Soon I began to notice improvements. And every time I fire it up I still get that wow feeling.
For me, A1 was worth the money. But as many have said, A1 is just an amp with basic functions. But what it does, it does it extremely well.
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Post by clausdk on Sept 28, 2011 22:05:19 GMT
r how loud (or quiet) I push them they just deliver music clearly. It is easy to see A1 is designed T1 in mind after you listen to that combo awhile. First I didn't quite found any differences but the sound was different. Soon I began to notice improvements. And every time I fire it up I still get that wow feeling. For me, A1 was worth the money. But as many have said, A1 is just an amp with basic functions. But what it does, it does it extremely well. No it is not the A1 was around years before the T1, I do not say they are not a good match, it could be the other way round..
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