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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2010 12:12:49 GMT
Hi all all sing It's my birthday and Xmas soon, fa la la la la lalalala so it's time for some new headphones, fa la la la la lalalala so I've ordered some K701 from thomann.de £169.00 free P.P i hope i like them will let you know i just love this time of year take care Shaun If you are really lucky, you might even get some "nooky" for your 50th too !
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2010 12:38:55 GMT
Oh Shite!! I'm using a Naim 5i CD player, so maybe you should buy one and tell the wife it's a new burglar alarm? The film centers on Rob Gordon (John Cusack), a self-confessed audiophile whose flair for understanding women is less than par for the course.Oh dear. That explains the mole hunt and the central heating. I would think a turntable with the Panda to K701 will be quite warm. I presume it's a posh turntable or are you a secret Garrard owner? i have had a few Garrard 401's and 1 301 just great turntables. i ended up going for one of those new fangled Notts Analogue Spacedeck with graphite platter and external psu. which IMHO lacks the bass slam that the 401 had but is less labour intensive than the oldies. I'm using a Lyra Dorian cart with it which can be a touch forward at time so swings and roundabouts. don't worry sexism or racism was not a part of the job criteria and I've never succumbed either of them there or anywhere else. no it was equality all the way with all being treated equally badly regardless of sexual orientation or race. take care
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2010 12:41:01 GMT
Hi all all sing It's my birthday and Xmas soon, fa la la la la lalalala so it's time for some new headphones, fa la la la la lalalala so I've ordered some K701 from thomann.de £169.00 free P.P i hope i like them will let you know i just love this time of year take care Shaun If you are really lucky, you might even get some "nooky" for your 50th too ! Thanks Alex but i think mole eradication must come first. (and at my age is better than sex. take care
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2010 13:59:31 GMT
Shaun Either you're not doing it right or you've got exceptional hearing Syd
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Chris53
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Post by Chris53 on Nov 20, 2010 21:51:39 GMT
Another one I love is the X-Can V2 with the Senn HD600. The V2 kicks the Senns into life (well, comparative life anyway) I'd agree with that, the HD600's sounded thin on my old X-CAN v1 but now Mike has modified my X-CAN v2 the HD600's sound better to my ears than my HD650's.
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Will
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Post by Will on Nov 21, 2010 10:11:43 GMT
Love it! I 'won' my K701's!
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Post by PinkFloyd on Nov 21, 2010 10:22:12 GMT
Hi all all sing It's my birthday and Xmas soon, fa la la la la lalalala so it's time for some new headphones, fa la la la la lalalala so I've ordered some K701 from thomann.de £169.00 free P.P i hope i like them will let you know i just love this time of year take care Shaun If you are really lucky, you might even get some "nooky" for your 50th too ! Nooky? what's that?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2010 11:10:26 GMT
Shaun If you are really lucky, you might even get some "nooky" for your 50th too ! Nooky? what's that? Have you forgotten already ? Might be time for another weekend away with that lovely Welsh lady that you have that love/hate relationship with ?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2010 12:29:37 GMT
Alex, you dirty beast. Nooky is a bear.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2010 20:18:43 GMT
Hi, Ian I have been away for a while. I can now say that, after about 600 hours of continuous playing, my AKG K701s are pretty much broken in. Gone is the excessive sibilance, and the sound seems much better balanced. To my ears the AKG K701s sound best with some of my (dare I say? ) modded, improved Chinese hybrid tube amplifiers -- believe it or not -- the modded Indeed G2, and the two modded Bravos with the crosstalk completely eliminated from them, among others such as bigger and better output caps (done according to oohms and Frans's recommendations). Another amp that I recently purchased in addition to the portable Neco dual mono v2, is the superb Neco Mosfet V2.1 , and Neco has been absolutely incredible in all his help and advice -- he has gone the extra 6000 miles to help me with finding the best PSU for it (the US 120VAC/;18VAC version is very hard to find), as well as answering some of my nagging questions. I tried using the above amp (with the AD8610 opamps) with the AKG K701, and the sound, while very clean, was too dry and clinical, it lacked air surrounding the misc. instruments in orchestral as well as vocal recordings. I then changed the opamps to the Burr-Brown OPA637 opamps (these are the uncompensated ones, which I chose for their wider bandwidth), but they were somewhat unstable at times, especially at low volume, producing some crackling noise -- they need a gain of at least 5 to be stable. So, I changed the opamps this time with the compensated Burr-Brown OPA627 opamps, and the sound is now much better, perhaps a little darker, a little more laid back, and somewhat fatter. I find this to be a nice combination with the AKG K701s -- almost as good as with some of my tube amps with Telefunken tubes. I did try my Sennheiser HD650s with the above Neco with the AD8610s installed, and it brought some real presence to them, but I haven't yet tried them after changing the opamps to the OPA627s. I may need to use Frans's veil lifter to liven them up somewhat with this combination, but at this point I am only guessing. I will report after I do some more listening tests. All the best! Israel
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2010 20:28:52 GMT
Hi Israel, Pleased you are happy with your 701`s, and your modified Amps to drive them with. Happy listening. Regards. Mick.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2010 21:12:02 GMT
Hi Israel. You're in good company. I also find those little tube amps very good with the K701. I have three of them. (Don't ask!!) The better for me is the Indeed. Mine hasn't been modified and the crosstalk doesn't bother me much to be honest but it's really nice to play around with tubes as well. They are rolled off in the treble and all that but it helps to warm the K701 up a little which isn't a bad thing.
Some others that I find work well is the Aune SS amp which is really useful for computer files via USB and I also have a rather nice little Class A amp which is absolutely super and easily transported when I'm not at home. It's very small.
best of the lot is the Panda which is the DIY amp which Mike put together for me. It enables me to play things really quite loud with no harshness whatsoever and it has totally changed my feelings about the K701.
Some find the Panda a little warm, but I find it's a fantastic match with the K701 in particular and makes them into a stunning listen. The bass in particular becomes very solid with strong transient attack and what surprised me is how low the AKG's actually go. Much lower than I first thought.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2010 22:07:36 GMT
Hi, Mick & Ian Thanks for your responses and comments. After reading about the Aune Panda SS amp, I am tempted to buy the kit, but am not sure that I would want to get involved with putting it together until I know that the instructions of doing it are clear and do not leave too much to guesswork. I will have to do a little more reading on it before I decide. I need another amp like a hole in the head! I now have 5 tube amps, and 4 solid state ones. Wheeew!! I need to remind myself that you can only listen to them one at a time! All the Best! Israel
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2010 22:27:51 GMT
Hi, Ian I listened to my Sennheiser HD650 with the Neco Mosfet V2.1 amp, to which I changed the opamps from AD8610s to Burr-Brown OPA627s, and find that the combination doesn't work too well because of the more laid back sound of the OPA627 (excellent with the AKG K701s, but not with the Sennheiser HD650) I then combined my Senn HD650 with Frans's veil lifter and the Neco portable dual mono V2 amp, which has the AD8610s installed, and because of the sharper and livelier response of the latter, it seems to balance the more laid back SQ of the Senn HD650 to the extent that I now dare say that the combination seems to produce the most detailed and lively sound I have so far heard from the HD650s. The sound of my AKG K701s with the Neco Mosfet V2.1 now, however is what I go for, if I want to hear the most accurate and detalied reproduction.. In addition to my having recabled the AKG K701s with the Cardas cable, I have also removed the original damper pads (oddly enough of two different textured foam materials between left and right side -- so much for quality control on part of AKG ), and replaced them with pads made out of synthetic chamois, but with one quarter of each cut out, and used as a reflector in the same space as the one occupied if it had not been cut off. To my ears, the end result seems to be SQ with very smooth highs, more bass and a flatter response. Cheers! Israel
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elysion
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Post by elysion on Nov 27, 2010 12:04:05 GMT
I listened to my Sennheiser HD650 with the Neco Mosfet V2.1 amp, to which I changed the opamps from AD8610s to Burr-Brown OPA627s, and find that the combination doesn't work too well because of the more laid back sound of the OPA627 (excellent with the AKG K701s, but not with the Sennheiser HD650) I then combined my Senn HD650 with Frans's veil lifter and the Neco portable dual mono V2 amp, which has the AD8610s installed, and because of the sharper and livelier response of the latter, it seems to balance the more laid back SQ of the Senn HD650 to the extent that I now dare say that the combination seems to produce the most detailed and lively sound I have so far heard from the HD650s. The sound of my AKG K701s with the Neco Mosfet V2.1 now, however is what I go for, if I want to hear the most accurate and detalied reproduction.. Hi Israel, I made very similar experiences with my Neco Mosfet V2 and Neco Portable V2 when used with HD650 and K702. The AD8160's are the only opamps I'm using in my Neco's (I have a standard Mosfet V2 with gain 5 and log pot and one Mosfet and one Portable with linear pot and reduced gains). Both the Mosfet V2 and the Portable V2 work very good with the HD650 and the K702. Of course the sound signature of those 'phones isn't the same in the end. I think the AD8160 opamps are a good match with both. I've learned that the K701/K702's need enough power to come really on song. My fault was that I was listening at too low volumes with them. The HD650 is IMO much easier to drive and is much more forgiving, especially if the source is not of very good quality. At them moment, I'm listening mostly to my Mike-modded X-Can V3 with Pinkie SE and Philips E88CC SQ tubes. It's a very good match with my K702. I think, it's overall slightly better than what I get with the Mosfet V2 together with K702, but both have combos have their advantages respectively different sound signatures. The Neco Portable V2 is VERY impressing since it has no problems to drive both the K702 and the HD650. IMO this amp is very close to the sound quality of the Mosfet V2 and my modded X-Can V3. Absolutely stunning for such a small device. Overall, I prefer the K702 over the HD650. At the moment, I'm rating the K702 even higher than the K501. Rabbit has a Panda amp and is sure that the Panda is the best match with the K701 that he has heard at any time at all. All the best, Christian
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2010 17:46:45 GMT
The AD8160's are the only opamps I'm using in my Neco's (I have a standard Mosfet V2 with gain 5 and log pot and one Mosfet and one Portable with linear pot and reduced gains). Both the Mosfet V2 and the Portable V2 work very good with the HD650 and the K702. Of course the sound signature of those 'phones isn't the same in the end. I think the AD8160 op amps are a good match with both. I've learned that the K701/K702's need enough power to come really on song. My fault was that I was listening at too low volumes with them. The HD650 is IMO much easier to drive and is much more forgiving, especially if the source is not of very good quality. At them moment, I'm listening mostly to my Mike-modded X-Can V3 with Pinkie SE and Philips E88CC SQ tubes. It's a very good match with my K702. I think, it's overall slightly better than what I get with the Mosfet V2 together with K702, but both have combos have their advantages respectively different sound signatures. The Neco Portable V2 is VERY impressing since it has no problems to drive both the K702 and the HD650. IMO this amp is very close to the sound quality of the Mosfet V2 and my modded X-Can V3. Absolutely stunning for such a small device. Overall, I prefer the K702 over the HD650. At the moment, I'm rating the K702 even higher than the K501. Rabbit has a Panda amp and is sure that the Panda is the best match with the K701 that he has heard at any time at all. Hi, Christian Thanks for your comments. After about 20 hours of burn-in the Burr-Brown OPA627 opamps now really sing, and I now prefer the Neco Mosfet V2.1 as modified above with my K701s -- even better than with the tube amps that I have. The detail, as well as the smooth reproduction as it is now is simply stunning. I really think that the Burr-Brown OPA627s are superior to the AD8610s when used with the K701s. They are quite a bit more expensive than the AD8610s (list price about $18 US each), but you can find them cheaper on eBay. The Neco Mosfet V2.1 now behaves almost like my Telefunken equipped tube amps, but is even better in transparency without being harsh, dry or clinical. What amazes me is the ability to reproduce even the minutest detail in heavily textured orchestral fortissimo passages, but without exaggerated sibilance. So far, this has become my favorite combination, and my Sennheiser HD650s are getting a long rest. I seem to now prefer my HD600s to them -- much more detail and less mudd. All the Best! Israel
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Chris53
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Post by Chris53 on Nov 27, 2010 19:12:37 GMT
my Sennheiser HD650s are getting a long rest. I seem to now prefer my HD600s to them -- much more detail and less mudd. Hear hear! Me too
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2010 19:26:26 GMT
Hi Israel,
Yes, I find the 8610 a little toppy with the K701 as well. I use the Neco quite a bit but not with the AKG. I'm using a wonderful little amp for mobile/hotel use - it's a Larks which was given to me recently while I was working over in Germany. An engineer gave it to me and it is absolutely superb. It's a Class A and I think in all honesty, that's what the AKG's need. Class A type amps seem to work well with them
The Panda has an enormous sound on the K701. The bass weight is unbelieveable without swamping the rest of the spectrum. That's something I find the HD650 does - it kind of clouds the rest above the bass which I find rather annoying, but the 8610 does cut through.
For me, the X-Can V2, V1 are good with the Senns and the X-Can V8 but the Panda trumps them both with the K701. Orchestral textures and placing are so precise, it's absolutely crystal.
I have never been too sure about the tonal characteristics of the K701 until I heard it with the Panda and the Larks. Now, I feel that it is tonally spot on. That along with its speed of attack and openness makes it an absolute winner for me.
One thing I have really discovered about the K701, it needs lots of power before it starts to sing without a doubt. Mike upped the power output on my Panda for me so that I was able to have 120 ohms at the headphone output and that also is another little secret behind it. 120 ohms is right for it. It really comes on song. The treble turns slightly sweeter so you can then turn the volume up without hurting your ears, so the bass really kicks in.
Double basses are just awesome on them. I've been listening to some Mahler and the opening of the 2nd symphony is just hair raising when you hear the basses running in at the start of the symphony with that opening phrase. It actually pins me in my chair!!
The K701 is the best I've heard so far, but only in combination with a matching amp. If you had said that to me a year agao, I'd have been skeptical. Now I'm in no doubt.
Powerful amp, 120 ohm output, class A and you're going to get a good sound if you have a quality amp in line!!
Glad you're enjoying it. as for quality control - well, my experience with my first pair showed that, although I didn't write about it here since I felt it may have been a one off and didn't want to put people off a good headphone. (basically) Your rewiring looks superb btw. well done.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2010 21:10:35 GMT
The Panda has an enormous sound on the K701. The bass weight is unbelieveable without swamping the rest of the spectrum. That's something I find the HD650 does - it kind of clouds the rest above the bass which I find rather annoying, but the 8610 does cut through. For me, the X-Can V2, V1 are good with the Senns and the X-Can V8 but the Panda trumps them both with the K701. Orchestral textures and placing are so precise, it's absolutely crystal. I have never been too sure about the tonal characteristics of the K701 until I heard it with the Panda and the Larks. Now, I feel that it is tonally spot on. That along with its speed of attack and openness makes it an absolute winner for me. One thing I have really discovered about the K701, it needs lots of power before it starts to sing without a doubt. Mike upped the power output on my Panda for me so that I was able to have 120 ohms at the headphone output and that also is another little secret behind it. 120 ohms is right for it. It really comes on song. The treble turns slightly sweeter so you can then turn the volume up without hurting your ears, so the bass really kicks in. Double basses are just awesome on them. I've been listening to some Mahler and the opening of the 2nd symphony is just hair raising when you hear the basses running in at the start of the symphony with that opening phrase. It actually pins me in my chair!! The K701 is the best I've heard so far, but only in combination with a matching amp. If you had said that to me a year agao, I'd have been skeptical. Now I'm in no doubt. Powerful amp, 120 ohm output, class A and you're going to get a good sound if you have a quality amp in line!! Glad you're enjoying it. as for quality control - well, my experience with my first pair showed that, although I didn't write about it here since I felt it may have been a one off and didn't want to put people off a good headphone. (basically) Your rewiring looks superb btw. well done. Hi, Ian Thanks for your comments! You are indeed tempting me to get yet another amp, and it looks like I may have to do something to get my hands on a Panda, or perhaps a Larks as well. This is how my collection of stuff seems to grow!... I am not sure what to do about the Panda though. While I am pretty good at soldering, I still hesitate getting involved with putting together this kit. I have some pretty good experience in putting together kits. I still have an old Dynaco 400 watt power amp that I put together years ago, and it still works great with my old AMT Heil speakers. I probably need to read some of Mike's posts about the Panda kit, and learn about the caveats, etc. Maybe he will be willing to advise me about converting the output to 120 Ohm for the K701s. Thanks again, and All the Best! Israel P.S. I also listen to a lot of Mahler, and indeed the opening of the 2nd, the "Resurrection" symphony, is awesome!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2010 21:49:57 GMT
There's a Bernstein recording I had of no 1 which has always shifted the hairs on my neck; especially the last movement and I also love the 6th. TBH, I love them all. So gripping. Difficult to record with the size of the forces needed with out resorting to lots of compression. Anyway, something like the K701 really pick out from this enormous mass of sound, very easily!! I would love to start soldering again but I'd have to get somewhere where it wouldn't matter if I made a mess!! Years ago, I put a synthesiser together but it's so long since I've worked on electronics that i've lost my bottle. I gave myself a hefty electrical shock and nearly killed myself and that was the end for me. Trouble now though, is you rely so heavily on support from others and someone like me can't offer much in return!! (Typical musician - it's the only thing I can do)
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2010 4:15:37 GMT
There's a Bernstein recording I had of no 1 which has always shifted the hairs on my neck; especially the last movement and I also love the 6th. TBH, I love them all. So gripping. I have that Bernstein recording of the Mahler 1st -- the orchestra is the excellent Amsterdam Concertgebouw. It is one of my favorite recordings of the 1st. There is another one with him conducting the NY Philharmonic (the orchestral playing leaves a lot to be desired! ) Like you, I also love them all, and the 6th Mahler is indeed gripping. I like the LSO with Sinopoli on DGG -- would like it better if he didn't grunt and sing at times, which is picked up by the mikes, and I find very distracting, but it seems a lot of conductors do that as well, and good sound engineers need to keep them in line by telling them that their grunting and bad singing is being recorded! What grips me about Mahler is the intensity of his music, as well as how different each every one of his symphonic works is. Of course, to me his most amazing work is 'Das Lied von der Erde'. I have not found an ideal recording of it, and I have most all of them. The best of the bunch IMHO is the Klemperer recording with Fritz Wunderlich and Christa Ludwig, though two different orchestras are involved in it (the Philharmonia and the New Philharmonia), and the recorded sound leaves a little something to be desired -- somewhat shrill and sibilant. Most probably the RIAA freq. response curve is to blame here. I also love the 7th with its most unusual somber and dark sonorities. To my ears, the Cleveland Orchestra recording with Pierre Boulez is excellent! And Boulez does not grunt -- at least not audibly! ;D
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2010 21:30:45 GMT
Yes, that's the one. Bernstein really throws himself into it and I really love the way he pulls tempos around to make this kind of stuff so expressive.
I always have slight problems with American orchestras oboe sound. It's very distinctive and very different to the English sound. So different that I can pick American orchestras out immediately because of it. The American players use a very different type of reed to the British players which produces a more 'nasal' sound which I find hard to like if I'm honest.
However, American brass is unbelieveable. That's where I have a problem with American versions of Mahler, not liking the oboe sound but loving the brass (and percussion)
I met up with some American brass players in Florida a few years back who were playing at Epcot. (Disney) They had a gruelling schedule there and were playing an awful lot of shows all day in that terrible heat. They danced and played their way through jazz, pop and arrangements of 'classical' pieces and were just stunning. All young guys from some kind of training academy, which the Americans do so well. These guys were extraordinarily fit and part of their training was also in movement as well as rehearsing/performing. They were called 'Blast' and were amazing brass players. There sem to be so many good brass players in America.
I love Bernstein's compositions as well. 'Candide' is a favourite of mine with all the madness that happens as part of the play and the glorious finale basically saying that 'everything happens for the best' which is a Voltaire idea. Every time I hear that last chorus, it really stuns me into silence for fifteen minutes afterwards. Absolutely fantastic.
He had such a good understanding of American orchestral playing and composed to their strengths so well imo. American orchestras have their own individual sound that is easily recognisable, although, maybe to you as an American musician, you may not be so aware of it!!
I tried American oboe reeds while I was over there and they are so different to blow!! They produce that sound because of the way they're put together and are shaped very differently from English reeds. The English sound is more 'reedy' I suppose. Not as reedy as a French oboe though!!
The sound I really love though is the sound of the Berlin Philharmonic. It's such a rounded sound and we lost one of our very talented conductors to the Germans - Simon Rattle. (Although I believe his move was also tied in with domestic difficulties as well!!)
Anyway, I'm glad the K701 worked out for you Israel.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2010 2:41:11 GMT
I also like the Berlin Philharmonic sound very much, but what I have a problem with that orchestra is the inconsistency of their intonation (or, shall I say lack thereof) at times, especially in the lower strings, who have a tendency to play sharp. I tried very much to like the Karajan recording of the Mahler 9th, but could not stand the fact that every section seems to play their own pitch, and as you know, the 9th has a lot of repeated unisons, especially in the opening of the first movement, and in this recording they are anything but unisons. I know that musicians hate to be told they are playing too sharp or too flat, and for political reasons, many conductors keep their mouths shut about it. But, Karajan was not somebody that kept quiet about things he didn't like, so I am at a loss for answers here. I do think that some of the Karajan Brahms Symphonies recordings, especially the Brahms 1st, 2nd and 4th are magnificent! I just love the slow long upbeat at the opening of the first movement of the 4th -- something other conductors have copied because it is so convincing! As a matter of fact, I have not yet tried listening to the Karajan Brahms 4th with my K701s. Another thing I have clearly noticed that they not only reveal textures but, because of their wide bandwidth, they also are dramatically merciless to poor intonation. As you most probably know, one of the oldest cheap and dirty tricks recording engineers use to ameliorate out of tune passages is to narrow down the frequency response in order to roll off the high frequencies where all the bad stuff floats up, and where interference is most audible as beats.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2010 5:54:07 GMT
I'll have to listen again!! I wonder whether it's to do with the way they record? I've heard the BPO live and they seemed fine. Maybe going back and rerecording sections has resulted in discrepancies like that which are not good at all. Maybe I focus too much on the oboe sound!!
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Spirit
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Post by Spirit on Nov 29, 2010 7:32:38 GMT
Maybe I focus too much on the oboe sound!! ;D Congrats on 2k posts too
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