elysion
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Post by elysion on Nov 2, 2010 23:08:12 GMT
Morex Mini-ITX case with D945GCLF: Not all ports on the front panel were used by me. Reason: The Morex case has connectors that are not exactly like ATX standards and I didn't want to use the sound ports on the front panel anyway. Although internal USB cabling was standardized long time ago, Morex has eight separate cables that must be placed on the mainboard USB connectors (hard thing to place the small connectors on each pin – at least the colours are corresponding to standards). The case had also a FireWire port on the front panel, but the mainboard has no FireWire. I've cutted the internal FireWire cable since it didn't make any sense with that board. I need only the money for the postage if you take the D945GCLF, but maybe you have an idea for a trade. Since I'm moving soon, it's a good time to get rid of that Atom board with Morex case. I have no further use for it. I'd remove the PCI ethernet card since you'd need the PCI slot for your soundcard and I'd replace the velcro cable strips with normal ones (I can use the velcro strips very good with my other cables/headphones). The 2GB DIMM would be included (of course) as would be everything else you see on the pictures. There's no harddisk included, but that not a big problem (buy the cheapest SATA HD and put it into the PC). The PSU of the Morex case is very inefficient. Lot of potential here to do it better. There are adapters that make use of 12V PSU's possible with standard ATX power connectors on the mainboard (the adapters are not cheap though). This "Morex" PC isn't totally silent, but also not really loud. Also some potential for improvements here. There are also two DVD-ROMs built-in and on each side are red LEDs mounted (you'll see a red glow through the holes on the sides and on the back).
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Will
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Post by Will on Nov 4, 2010 9:13:15 GMT
Elysion, that's a great little motherboard to base a music dedicated pc on (and also a very generous offer to Chris) I take it the 12V molex adaptors are these? www.mini-itx.com/store/?c=10#dcdcThey are what I am planning to use, along with a 6A 12V linear supply. Eventually, I hope to move to a dedicated linear supply.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2010 17:11:43 GMT
Wow! Christian, what can I say! If you can think up something you'd like in trade please say. (the only thing I can think of right now is a small pair of Mission speakers I have spare. Just about small enough for a large desk though they are meant as bookshelf) The postage is even cheap compared to Spain, it would cost me double to send the same to you! Let me know... Many thanks, phil and Alex, thanks for the views/experiences with the LM4562. Chris
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elysion
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Post by elysion on Nov 4, 2010 20:45:50 GMT
Elysion, that's a great little motherboard to base a music dedicated pc on (and also a very generous offer to Chris) I take it the 12V molex adaptors are these? www.mini-itx.com/store/?c=10#dcdcThey are what I am planning to use, along with a 6A 12V linear supply. Eventually, I hope to move to a dedicated linear supply. Yes, I was thinking of an adapter of this kind. Intel had a (now discontinued) motherboard that was very cheap, also with an Atom CPU and 12V input. There are other Mini-ITX boards that work with low-voltage DC input. Most of them use 12V. What about powering some of those Mini-ITX boards with the help of a Little Pinkie? Most voltage converters on motherboards are rather inefficient, I think there is also some potential that isn't used by most PC motherboards. Todays PCs need quite a few different voltages for operation. Lowest voltages are used usually for CPU cores and memory while other components like drives, fans etc. are using higher voltages (at least for input) up to 12V. CCFL's (cold cathode fluorescent lights) even need inverters to produce the needed high-voltages. PSU are not only essential for audio equipment. Computers are also sensitive devices and there are quite a few problems with cheap manfactured computers that can have a relation to PSU problems (long term stability of systems running 24/7/365 depends a lot on realiable PSU's; many servers have dual or triple PSU's for better reliability and often use also UPS for additional protection).
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Will
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Post by Will on Nov 4, 2010 21:45:07 GMT
Was that itx mother board the D945GSEJT? That's one I was looking at, which takes a 12Vdc input. I think normal load of that motherboard is 2.5A - 3.5A, with max rated at 6A, all dependant on what you connect up to the motherboard.
I think that you are right in that better quality power supplies will have a benefit when using the motherboards for music, as it seems in most cases. I've investigated the requirements for a d510M motherboard I'm getting for my birthday, and reckon a simple linear supply that can do 12V, 5V, 3.3V and -12V is quite do-able, but will use an adaptor and a 12V supply initially to get things under way.
There are a couple of guys here who already use dedicated linear supplies to power blu-ray drives to improve SQ, and I've heard of some who power music cards directly (cutting the pci power connectors) from clean supplies as well.
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elysion
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Post by elysion on Nov 4, 2010 22:41:27 GMT
Was that itx mother board the D945GSEJT? That's one I was looking at, which takes a 12Vdc input. I think normal load of that motherboard is 2.5A - 3.5A, with max rated at 6A, all dependant on what you connect up to the motherboard. I think that you are right in that better quality power supplies will have a benefit when using the motherboards for music, as it seems in most cases. I've investigated the requirements for a d510M motherboard I'm getting for my birthday, and reckon a simple linear supply that can do 12V, 5V, 3.3V and -12V is quite do-able, but will use an adaptor and a 12V supply initially to get things under way. There are a couple of guys here who already use dedicated linear supplies to power blu-ray drives to improve SQ, and I've heard of some who power music cards directly (cutting the pci power connectors) from clean supplies as well. Yes, exactly that board: www.intel.com/products/desktop/motherboards/D945GSEJT/D945GSEJT-overview.htmThere are quite a few motherboard with Mini-ITX factor that use 12V DC input. I have two AsRock ION330 computers, those have 19V DC input. The voltage converters on the motherboard can be also a problem. Most are not very efficient and maybe they can have also a negative effect. It's probably a question that is related to the quality of the used parts. I don't think most el-cheapo motherboard use only high-quality components. I have a few older Sun computers with SPARC/UltraSPARC architecture. Those have (mostly) components of very high quality. They were sold originally for prices in absolutely astronomical regions. I have a Sun E450, this one was sold new for the price of a house (I got it used for only a small amount of money). My favourites of those old UltraSPARC are the Ultra 60's. Back in its days, it was a really impressive computer. The Sun Elite 3Dm6 graphics card for the UPA bus was also very impressive years ago (nothing compared to todays GPU's though): It had two processors for normal graphics operations and six geometry processors for 3D calculations. It's a very impressive graphics card that consists of two PCB's stacked together (similar to the X-Can V1+V2 PCB's).
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2010 12:49:54 GMT
I finally hooked up my DAC and a HPamp to the PC for a better test of the proceedings so far... (naff pics) Not bad! I'm pleased how well this humble setup is doing. My Meridian 506.24 is not too scared yet but it is looking over its shoulder Alex I had another shuffle through some of the hires track rips, the differences are now clearer, DEFINITELY not imagination!
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elysion
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Post by elysion on Nov 26, 2011 14:09:19 GMT
Just out of curiosity: How did it work out with the D945GCLF for you, Chris?
Since no one has wanted the other D945GCLF I had (that with the Morex case), I've decided to use it for something. It has now a glued on heatsink on the southbridge and the other heatsinks have got a threatment with better heat-conductive paste. This innocent little box is now running a legal license of the Gates User System (YUK!) in the XP variant. I need it for testing some things with the Gates User System. Linux runs much better on that box though. But I have enough PCs which run Linux fine.
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elysion
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Post by elysion on Nov 26, 2011 14:14:02 GMT
BTW: It's not a bad idea to update the BIOS to the newest version. Intel has updated the BIOS quite often, the last version is from 2010. BIOS update is really easy and can't go wrong. There are techniques to resurrect the BIOS if the update process is stopped by something like a mains failure.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2011 0:34:23 GMT
Hi Christian, Yes, sorry a definite lack of feedback from me, my bad. I set it up very much the same way you've seen in Wills and Shauns posts. I used a stripped down XP as I haven't had needed to jump to Win7 as yet i.e. our computers are working OK at the moment! I was using Foobar and getting excellent results. I then had to pack it all up and it has stayed that way for too long. A rummage and rescue is overdue. I would like to try a stripped down Win7 on it but can't really justify the spend amoungst all the other things vying for boys toys money allocations! Especially as I just spent out on a supa dupa do everything mobile phone
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pagan
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Post by pagan on Nov 27, 2011 1:05:45 GMT
Was that itx mother board the D945GSEJT? That's one I was looking at, which takes a 12Vdc input. I think normal load of that motherboard is 2.5A - 3.5A, with max rated at 6A, all dependant on what you connect up to the motherboard. I think that you are right in that better quality power supplies will have a benefit when using the motherboards for music, as it seems in most cases. I've investigated the requirements for a d510M motherboard I'm getting for my birthday, and reckon a simple linear supply that can do 12V, 5V, 3.3V and -12V is quite do-able, but will use an adaptor and a 12V supply initially to get things under way. There are a couple of guys here who already use dedicated linear supplies to power blu-ray drives to improve SQ, and I've heard of some who power music cards directly (cutting the pci power connectors) from clean supplies as well. The Intel 510 can run off a LM338 based 12v psu. this one www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Voltage-Regulator-Module-Output-5A-1-5-32V-LM338T-/150665399334?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_Amplifiers&hash=item23145b8c26I using a pico psu 80Watt in the d510 at present, maybe could go down to 60Watt pico. www.mini-box.com/picoPSU-90If your just playing music, not reprocessing it(upsampling) , then even the single processor D410 would probably do. You don't need an ION based mainboard unless your going for video duties too.
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elysion
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Post by elysion on Nov 27, 2011 1:07:29 GMT
Just a hint: If you are using this PC just for audio, then forget the "Gates User System" (it's crap IMO). This little box should run Linux very well, in fact it will run BETTER with Linux. It will cost you nothing beside downloading and burning a CD for install (and some hours spent to learn a bit basic knowledge).
Don't hesitate to try it. There are Linux distributions available that are very easy to install (without much knowledge).
I'd recommend you to try a flavour of the Ubuntu series (Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Lubuntu, Xubuntu, Edubuntu etc.) or Linux Mint (which is based on Ubuntu).
I suggest a Linux version with a lightweight desktop, for example Xubuntu or Lubuntu or LinuxMint with LXDE desktop (there's a special light 32-bit distribution for that).
Maybe not every up to date distro will work on that hardware. For example if Xubuntu 11.10 (the newest release) isn't working, try one of the older releases like 10.04 (this one willl work for sure). I'll help if you need assistance. I'm sure Lark will also. I guess Lark is anyway the more experienced Linux user.
There's a lot of audio related software and drivers for Linux around. I'm using currently Xubuntu 11.10 with a ASUS Xonar Essence STX with the new PC, which I've built recently.
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Will
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Post by Will on Nov 27, 2011 19:58:55 GMT
Just a hint: If you are using this PC just for audio, then forget the "Gates User System" (it's crap IMO). This little box should run Linux very well, in fact it will run BETTER with Linux. It will cost you nothing beside downloading and burning a CD for install (and some hours spent to learn a bit basic knowledge). Don't hesitate to try it. There are Linux distributions available that are very easy to install (without much knowledge). I'd recommend you to try a flavour of the Ubuntu series (Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Lubuntu, Xubuntu, Edubuntu etc.) or Linux Mint (which is based on Ubuntu). I suggest a Linux version with a lightweight desktop, for example Xubuntu or Lubuntu or LinuxMint with LXDE desktop (there's a special light 32-bit distribution for that). Maybe not every up to date distro will work on that hardware. For example if Xubuntu 11.10 (the newest release) isn't working, try one of the older releases like 10.04 (this one willl work for sure). I'll help if you need assistance. I'm sure Lark will also. I guess Lark is anyway the more experienced Linux user. There's a lot of audio related software and drivers for Linux around. I'm using currently Xubuntu 11.10 with a ASUS Xonar Essence STX with the new PC, which I've built recently. Last time I used Linux, I accidentally summoned Cthulu and it took me ages for me to get him to leave! Seriously though, Linux needs to be much easier and friendly to use before it gains more acceptance. I have tried to use it, but the lack of support for drivers, coupled with less than intuitive use make it more a 'diy' way of controlling a pc, in my eyes. The last time I used it, the whole thing crashed after 1 month, in a way that the hard drive was completely inaccessible, something that has never happened with a microsoft product.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2011 22:18:09 GMT
Christian & Will,
My experience of Linux is limited to my sons netbook running Ubuntu.
When it's working its just about OK on the low power netbook but seems to fall off its perch quite often. I have to send it in to his school (Education bodys property) for a reset as they have to put all the school stuff back on too. Therefore I never learn anything about it.
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elysion
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Post by elysion on Nov 27, 2011 22:35:21 GMT
Never fear! If you have already managed to install Windows XP, you won't get real problem by installing Linux. It's really NOT complicated. The user interface is different, sure, but many things are easier than with Windows. If you are not able to download and burn a Linux distro, I can help you. I'd send send you a few distros that are burned on CD. You only have to boot from that CD and the rest is very easy. You only have to give the usual informations about language, keyboard layout, timezone and which harddrive you want to use for install. Trust me. You won't be disappointed. Since I have still a D945GCLF around, I can choose something that will work for sure. You can still buy Win7 afterwards, in the unlikely case you'll Linux total crap. Beside the time effort (I'd have around 0.5-0.75 hours for a basic install), you can't loose anything. Frans is also a Linux user. The sound architecture of Linux is also more advanced to that of Win7, it's called ALSA (Advanced Linux Sound Architecture). en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Linux_Sound_ArchitectureBTW: Which soundhardware do you want to use? That's probably the only difficulty (if a device wouldn't be supported), but there are Linux drivers for a lot of soundcards. Even the ASUS Xonar series is supported, those drivers are top-notch.
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elysion
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Post by elysion on Nov 27, 2011 22:43:27 GMT
What flavour of Linux did you use, Will? And on what hardware have you intended to install it?
If you take the right Linux distribution for a specific computer, almost nothing can go wrong.
The many flavours of the Ubuntu series, including LinuxMint, are very user friendly. But the newest releases don't support very old hardware. There are other distributions, which DO support almost every kind of hardware (OpenSUSE supports more hardware even with the newest releases).
If your harddrive was inaccessible, then it could be a hardware problem (Windows would have the same problems here) or you have probably managed to alter someting so that the system didn't boot properly. In that case the issue could be solved.
Perhaps I can help you a bit, if you like to give it another try.
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elysion
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Post by elysion on Nov 27, 2011 22:52:19 GMT
@ Chris: Let me see if I can find another unused 2.5 inch HD somewhere. I could install and preconfigure a Linux system for you. Of course, I coudn't configure specific soundhardware, but everything else should be possible since I have a box with the same motherboard here.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2011 9:50:27 GMT
Hi Christian,
That's a very interesting idea. How about I send you the existing drive? I've already wiped off XP last night with thoughts of seeing if I could get it running leaner. All I need it to cope with is music (EAC and foobar), internet and my Zone Alarm anti-V/FW.
PM me your address and I'll take the Linux challange!
Cheers,
Chris
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2011 10:20:10 GMT
Chris, forget Foobar. It only runs on Windows. You'll have to use a Linux player or maybe you could run Foobar through a Windows emulation app (if it is possible). Ditto for EAC.
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Post by lark on Nov 28, 2011 11:36:23 GMT
Hi CJ, My old Dell PIII 730Mhz 512RAM(max) now has a USB2 board fitted (was lucky to have one knocking about), I´ve ordered an ASUS XONAR DS sound card ( actually managed to source one in Spain! nearly faints and falls off horse ) so that I can feed off the internal header-out for coaxial SPDIF, thanks for the tip Will! In my opinion, this machine is plenty powerful enough as a dedicated audio media player. My preferred configuration would be some flavour of Linux and MPD. MPD does not come with a HMI - that is, it does not come with a user interface. Instead, MPD is intended to be 'remotely' controlled - this can still be from the 'host' machine but can be from any machine connected to the network. This is a advantage as you have the same level of control from any device on the network using one of the MPD clients. There are a bazillion front end clients for MPD these include ones for Android Phones, Android tables, iPhone, iPad, Windows, Firefox, Linux - there is one to suit just about every need. If you have a modern tv that can do web browsing, you can even use it as client! My original MPD setup was on some pIII 333mhz machine (some 10 years ago) - today it's all nice and compact running on a old first gen Popcorn Hour.
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elysion
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Post by elysion on Nov 28, 2011 20:16:55 GMT
Hi Christian, That's a very interesting idea. How about I send you the existing drive? I've already wiped off XP last night with thoughts of seeing if I could get it running leaner. All I need it to cope with is music (EAC and foobar), internet and my Zone Alarm anti-V/FW. PM me your address and I'll take the Linux challange! Cheers, Chris Chris, if I'd find another disk, you wouldn't have to pay postage twice. And you'd have also your existing disk for own experiments. What keyboard layout do you have? UK, Spain, US? That probably the hardest part for me. It's not a real problem to change the keyboard layout afterwards, but "plug&play" is always better. I'd take a simple (and insecure...) password for you which will be no problem with almost any keyboard. Do you have specific (sound-)hardware which you want to use with the Atom motherboard? I'll post downloads links to a few appropriate Linux distros here soon. If you know how to burn a CD image, you can't do much wrong.
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Post by freddypipsqueek on Nov 28, 2011 21:55:23 GMT
Ubuntu. Very easy to install. Google "Ubuntu". There are plenty of mirrors.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2011 1:55:38 GMT
Hi Christian,
This sounds like it could be fun. I have both UK and Spanish keyboards, either is fine. Sounds are via an Asus Xonar DS.
Cheers,
Chris
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elysion
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Post by elysion on Nov 30, 2011 20:53:25 GMT
Chris, in the case you want to hurry with Linux, here a download link to a distribution that will work good on your Atom board: www.xubuntu.org/getubuntuI had not enough time to test it on my identical board, but an older release worked very well. First choose Xubuntu 11.10. If this one should make troubles, try 10.04. 10.04 will work for sure since it does support quite old hardware. If 11.10 doesn't work, you'll recognize that because the installer will "hang" after you have chused the settings and try to install. I've seen this behaviour with 11.04 and 11.10 on a couple of Pentium 4 based machines, which are not supported anymore. Xubuntu is probably the best compromise out of the Ubuntu series. The Xfce desktop of Xubuntu is lightweight but still very useable (IMO much better than the "Unity" desktop of the newer Ubuntu releases). Beside the usual settings (language, keyboard layout, time zone, selecting of disk for install etc.), you'll have almost nothing to do. The Xonar soundcard IS recognized by Xubuntu automatically, or more precise: Every component in your system will be auto-dectected and automatically installed. I know your configuraton good enough, you won't have any problems. Please update your BIOS to the lastest release first. It will work also with the BIOS that is already flashed on the board, but the newer is certainly the better choice. You can't do anything wrong while flashing. The intel motherboard have a built-in restore functionality if BIOS flashing is interrupted, the procedure is well documented. Download page for D945GCLF downloads: downloadcenter.intel.com/SearchResult.aspx?lang=deu&keyword=%22D945GCLF%22#This link leds you to the right BIOS update: downloadcenter.intel.com/Detail_Desc.aspx?lang=eng&changeLang=true&DwnldId=18947There are several methods for flashing the BIOS. I'd suggest you to use the ISO image. Burn a CD of that image, boot from that CD and follow the instructions. Don't interrupt power during flashing (but as mentioned, a broken intel BIOS can be restored without to much trouble). After that, go into BIOS setup and the settings. I can guide you through the BIOS setup if necessary (choose AHCI for IDE/SATA mode, Hyperthreading should be enabled). Maybe it's best to post PICS of the right BIOS settings after you have flashed the BIOS.
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elysion
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Post by elysion on Nov 30, 2011 20:56:11 GMT
BTW: No spare 2.5 inch HD around so far. But 3.5 inch would be absolutely no problem. Perhaps, I'll find a 2.5 inch HD later.
Don't hesitate to experiment alone with Linux. You can't do much wrong and I'll help if you have questions. If we both are online on RG, we can do it step-by-step.
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