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Post by PinkFloyd on Apr 7, 2010 23:34:30 GMT
Out of the boxNECO very kindly sent me one of his V.2 portables over for review. It arrived this afternoon, I haven't had a chance to listen to it yet so here are my "out of the box" impressions for starters. First thing that struck me when I removed it from the box was the sheer "weight".... it's a very compact little amp measuring only 90 x 63 x 28mm (LWD) but, my god, it's a SOLID affair! You could drop this billet of aluminium from the Empire State building and it would bounce back up and knock you out..... it's the most solid "portable" I have ever seen. See what I mean? BULLET proof! This puppy won't cry out in pain if you sit on it or drop it, it's built to withstand a nuclear attack. Ok.... the enclosure is as solid as the Gibralter Rock..... what about the "amp" itself? I haven't had an opportunity to listen yet but will do tomorrow (with an IPOD . Apple lossless as source) so no point "assuming" what it sounds like until I have actually heard it. Technical sideThere is one "feature" I really like about this amp.... it has an integral rechargeable battery (200mA) which you charge via an offboard adaptor / Wallwart (supplied) It's a simple case of charging the amp up overnight and you are ready to go with a full charge the next day..... I don't know "how long" a charge will last but will report on this when I get to the "audio" side of my review. The included instruction sheet states "Do NOT charge for more than 18 hours. Above 18 hours causes overcharge and this can shorten the battery life...... no problems for the average punter who only sleeps 8 hours. OK..... what more can I say without actually "listening" to it?..... It's a Dual Mono design (it incorporates 2 x single channel opamps instead of one dual chip) some say 2 single chips are better than one dual chip (sonically) I agree. The chips fitted in my review amp are 2 x ADAD8610 (single versions of the AD8620).... the standard NECO ships with OPA134 which are single versions of the OPA2134.... I will explain ALL of this when I get round to my review. Here are a few pics of the circuit for starters: Apart from the heavy handed "blobs" on the 8610 and the unnecessary use of a dip8 socket (why was the 8610 not directly soldered to the board?) the internal construction is TOP NOTCH. Made in England too. I will return with my appraisal of the sound in the next couple of days. Pinkie.
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leo
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Post by leo on Apr 8, 2010 8:19:25 GMT
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Post by attilio on Apr 8, 2010 23:31:30 GMT
Hi Leo, Thats another variant, £37 less than the high spec Mosfet headphone amplifier - V.2 Class A Dual mono version. Sound wise I wonder if there will be a big difference between the two.Thats quite a nice saving on the £125 V2 version. Attilio
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Post by PinkFloyd on Apr 9, 2010 21:13:57 GMT
The NECO V.2 has been with me a few days now. I charged her up fully (12 hours) before using (even though the amp came "with" a charge: ~ Red light indicates charging in progress. Whipped out my ipod, this pic will give you an idea of the size of the NECO V.2: Plugged her in: I will get STRAIGHT to the point regarding the sound quality..... it is top notch. Without a shadow of a doubt the best "portable" I have ever heard. The dual single channel AD8610 ensure that channel seperation is superb and the battery power supply is as "clean" as you can get. To class this as a "portable" gives the wrong impression, this is a seriously "big" sounding amp with enough GRUNT to drive even the most demanding of 'phones..... I have tried Senn HD-250ll, Senn HD-25/1, AKG K-501, Grado SR-60 / SR-225 and the NECO V.2 drives them all with ease..... it also makes a good job of driving my highly inefficient Sennheiser HD-414, quite an achievement! Sound quality is punchy, dynamic, energetic and the soundstage is seriously "3D" in character.... close your eyes and you would think you were listening to an amp 10 times the size.... the sheer "scale" of delivery is incredible..... I'd go as far as to say this is as close to perfection as you will get from a headphone amp, it reproduces the music flawlessly and remains "musical" at the same time.... the best of both world's. Back to back with the Indeed G2, the NECO truly shows it's class.... it is tighter, faster, more energetic and really shows up the limitations of the indeed G2 "big style". Back to back with a modded Musical Fidelity V2 I "also" prefer the NECO.... it is just so perfect (believe me, someone who spends his time modding MF equipment / making money from it would be mad to admit a Little portable amp sounds better than his "modded" amp)..... I have to admit, to my ears, that it "does". The gain is just perfect, you get full usage of the pot... the "internal" rechargeable battery is fantastic, a 12 hour charge and it's ready for action..... I will monitor the actual "playtime" from one charge over the next few weeks. If there's anything you'd like to ask me about the amp then please do.... basically, it's the best portable I have heard (to date), it's built like a brick shithouse and is a serious contender for my "nicest sounding amp of all time" award.... it's THAT good £69.50 ? An absolute STEAL at that price.... made in the UK by a qualified engineer. I'll leave the final word to NECO: "I'm a fully qualified Electronics Engineer with two degrees on the subject and have a great passion for designing high quality audio circuits. I have to say being a hi-fi enthusiast myself with many years of experience in building audio circuits I understand what my customers want. Solid finished products with accurate voltage amplification, as close to the original source as possible. Can not say it any simpler" Neco.
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Post by schubida on Apr 9, 2010 21:42:06 GMT
...and now test the "Neco-High spec Mosfet headphone amplifier - V.2", the full size amp Mike. It´s worth it!!
All the best,
Wilhelm
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Post by JohnnyBlue on Apr 10, 2010 6:59:24 GMT
I hate to sound curmudgeonly after such a great review, but shouldn't you point out that with the AD8610 upgrades, the cost is actually £84.50 (plus £6.00 P&P)?
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leo
Been here a while!
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Post by leo on Apr 10, 2010 16:24:21 GMT
So does this amp use the op-amps internal output stage to drive the cans or is there an additional active stage to help it out?
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Post by MaN227 on Apr 10, 2010 18:37:35 GMT
* desperate , strained voice .... muuuuusssstttt reeeee zzzziiiiisssssttttt. do not look upon the beast as it'll eat you alive
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Post by PinkFloyd on Apr 10, 2010 21:52:56 GMT
I hate to sound curmudgeonly after such a great review, but shouldn't you point out that with the AD8610 upgrades, the cost is actually £84.50 (plus £6.00 P&P)? Sorry, yes, you are absolutely correct Johnny. The "standard" version with the OPA134 is £69.50. The one I am auditioning is the AD8610 version which costs £15 more. I have tons of OPA134 kicking about (the single versions of the OPA2134) so will pop them into the V.2 and have a listen, I will report back with my impressions re: AD8610 V OPA134..... from experience I would say the OPA134 will be more chocolaty sounding (warmer) and the AD8610 more "organic" and focused but we'll see I will also try OPA627, OPA602, AD847, AD744 and a few others I have kicking about.... it's a great little amp to audition different chips in and, being battery powered, no worries about feeding it with a mega buck linear regulated PSU.... battery power being possibly the "cleanest" supply you can get. The internal rechargeable battery is a superb idea..... I love the sound of "battery powered" amps but the constant changing them when they run out of juice is a pain in the arse and can prove very expensive if you listen a lot.... all you do with this little beauty is plug the charger in for 8 hours (overnight) and that's you fully charged with nice "clean" juice for another good few hours of listening. I am monitoring the full charge to discharge rate... so far (from the initial charge) I have listened to it for about 4 hours.... I accidentally left it switched on last night and have been listening for a further 2 hours this evening.... I'll let her fully run out of juice and the next time (after a full charge) I will accurately monitor the lifespan of one charge. The "stock" rechargeable battery is a 200mAh type which could be replaced with a 325mAh type (that link is just an example) for even longer playtime between charges. It is generally accepted that "battery power" is the best you can get for audio which may be "one" of the reasons the NECO V.2 sounds SO damned good.... be sure, if you buy one of these, you will never have to worry about "upgrading the power supply" NOR will you have to buy vast quantities of "duracells" to keep it running The longer I listen to this amp the more I am convinced that it is something truly special, I don't want to stop listening to the music and that is a VERY good sign that things are right.... it's a little solid (bullet proof) billet of aluminium on the outside but it has a heart of gold.... it also has "soul" and manages to convey the message of the music in a "hairs standing up on the back of your neck" way. I would love to see a "desktop" edition with Phono socket inputs (for those of us who primarily use CD as a source)..... a bigger enclosure, same internal circuitry, same rechargeable battery powered PSU..... Just another version for CDP as source dinosaurs (and there are a lot of out there ) Battery powered should not only apply to portables IMO.... I think it should be applied to ALL headphone amps. There is no need for these "fridge sized" headphone amps weighing KILO's (as the NECO V.2 proves) small and simple is GOOD..... No modern headphone (apart from dinosaurs like the K-1000) should require an amp the size of a small house to drive them! Unless you are attempting to drive some old, inneficient headphones then a small "efficient" battery powered amp like this will give you much better results than a HUGE glowing low bake kiln type affair sitting next to you. The NECO V.2 has been a real ear opener for me and, IMO, proves that "Big" over complex amps with "Big" over complex power supplies are NOT necessary when it comes down to driving today's efficient headphones.... Less IS more. Possibly the finest headphone amp I have heard in the last ten years and, most certainly, the smallest and most user friendly..... Superb
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2010 22:19:44 GMT
The latest eBay listing offers a larger battery:
"NEW upgrade option: Battery can also be upgraded to ultra high capacity Powerex 300ma nimh battery for 50% extra usage time: Additional cost: £7"
Syd
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Post by PinkFloyd on Apr 10, 2010 22:35:58 GMT
The latest eBay listing offers a larger battery: "NEW upgrade option: Battery can also be upgraded to ultra high capacity Powerex 300ma nimh battery for 50% extra usage time: Additional cost: £7" Syd Thanks Syd, I haven't seen that listing yet ...... 300mA is good and, without having to source from abroad, about as much as you will get from a 9V in the "UK" at a sensible price. The 200mA appears to be giving excellent run time.... it's still playing away as I type this..... we are a fussy bunch though, always wanting the "best" If there's more than 200mA available we want it! Syd, I will be Happy to send the NECO V.2 over to you for a listen if you like? Mike.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2010 22:41:03 GMT
Thanks Mike, that would be great. Mind you I thought I had done well to keep my finger off the 'buy now' button, its probably only a matter of time now ;D
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Post by JohnnyBlue on Apr 11, 2010 8:14:08 GMT
I bought a couple of these PP3s so I could have pair on charge, whilst another pair are driving my DIY CMoy: They're cheap enough at just over £4 including delivery...
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Post by clausdk on Apr 11, 2010 20:05:52 GMT
Would be nice if those Necoamps came as kits also, Walking around with that box would murder my bag for portables, I do not like the look either..
I like johnnyblue's much better and do treat my gear with respect, so I do not need an enclosure that could withstand a bombblast..
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Post by PinkFloyd on Apr 11, 2010 21:40:47 GMT
Would be nice if those Necoamps came as kits also, Walking around with that box would murder my bag for portables, I do not like the look either.. I like johnnyblue's much better and do treat my gear with respect, so I do not need an enclosure that could withstand a bombblast.. Ah.... it's great that we all think differently Claus, it makes the world a more interesting place Personally, I detest these amps in "mint tins"... sit on the thing and say hello to a nice big dent.... a few months down the line all the paint starts wearing off, the cheap hinges snap etc. etc. etc. I have over 50 Altoids tins sitting out in the workshop, I actually EAT the mints, (and about the same again with old tobacco tins).... nice and pretty when new but not so pretty when they age I will never have the occasion to "use" a portable amp " on the move" as I prefer to have my wits about me / like talking to people when I'm out and about.... plus, walking about the streets like a zombie with a pair of headphones on is NOT what life is about IMO.... I can NEVER see myself in a situation where I will "need" a portable rig..... maybe if I go on holiday but what a crap holiday that would be if I found myself sitting on my arse listening to music all day long ;D No...... up here, where I live, people still talk to each other when they are out and about and I have no intention of blanking myself out from social intercourse. Anyways.......... just because it's classed as a "portable" doesn't mean it's sole purpose in life is to sit in the shirt pocket of some "commuter" who has the social interaction skills of a house brick...... No..... It's all about the sound quality to me, whether it be the size of a breeze block or a packet of fags.... doesn't matter a toss, as long as it sounds good. Now..... considering the NECO will NEVER be in my shirt pocket (I don't wear shirts unless I have to appear in court / attend a funeral) the enclosure suits me down to the ground.... it sits firmly on the deck (I will be adding feet to it also) and is a bullet proof, quality piece of gear that SOUNDS good. My main criticism of the Graham Slee Voyager was that god awful cheap and nasty plastic enclosure.... £185..... no shielding from RFI / EMI, totally "open" to the elements we are trying to keep out..... the Little NECO is totally clad in thick aluminium and is rechargeable..... sure it may make your nipples sore if you're wearing a thin "shirt" or it may get distasteful glances from your fellow zombie commuter who prefers "plastic" but who gives a fck'?..... it sounds good and possibly one of the reasons it sounds SO good is that it is housed in a bullet proof aluminium enclosure. Just look at the Bravo / Indeed amps (which have no shielding from the elements) RFI city baby! It's smaller than an ipod and a LOT smaller than an Aune: I dunno.... if I was one of these freaks who walked about town with an ipod, an amp and a pair of headphones strapped onto my person I would see no problems "accomodating" the NECO into my clothing "rig"..... most of these freaks have a laptop and mobile phone as well...... so I'm sure the NECO won't pose any problems for those types that are walking "media centers" They may soon have to ditch the "shirt pocket" and start dressing more appropriately to carry all this gear: Sorry Claus, I got a bit carried away with my reply there..... back on the subject of enclosures...... I made quite a few MINT amps (back in the day) in tiny hammond enclosures (much smaller than the NECO) but never considered them as "portables"..... I always fitted top quality phono sockets at the input as I considered the sound quality so good and wanted to use them with CDP as source..... more of a "mini amp" than a "portable": Apologies for the crap photo quality.... I was making them back in the late 90's and digital camera technology was shite back then A small amp but, in my opinion (then) not a "portable" amp..... obviously you could carry it about from A to B but it wasn't intended for "music on the move" it was simply a "mini amp"..... I still have a few MINT boards left and may make a few special edition amps without the RCA sockets and 3.5mm inputs instead to satisfy the music on the move brigade...... yeh, right, and pig's might fly . Claus, I have seen them come and go and I have "lived" with most of them over the years..... the NECO may not "look" good, aesthetically, to your eyes but, believe me, it will stand the test of time. Mike.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Apr 11, 2010 22:00:17 GMT
Thanks Mike, that would be great. Mind you I thought I had done well to keep my finger off the 'buy now' button, its probably only a matter of time now ;D Syd, Please PM me your details.... I need a "nudge" at the moment I am bogged down with work. Mike.
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Post by clausdk on Apr 11, 2010 22:02:57 GMT
Well if a kit was sold it would get a wodden enclosure , with a rfi screen.. I only use the portable gear at work or when walking the dog, if I do feel the urge to comunicate, my headphones is the kind of phones that are not glued to my head and can be taken of in a heartbeat. I do not use phones on trains and busses, I love talking to strangers. I like the mintbox better because it is more organic in design, round edges an so.. BTW I would not even use a shirt in court
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Post by clausdk on Apr 11, 2010 22:05:27 GMT
Thanks Mike, that would be great. Mind you I thought I had done well to keep my finger off the 'buy now' button, its probably only a matter of time now ;D Be strong do not give in to temptation, use the force..
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Post by PinkFloyd on Apr 11, 2010 22:11:52 GMT
BTW I would not even use a shirt in court Not even if you were the judge?
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Post by clausdk on Apr 11, 2010 22:14:45 GMT
BTW I would not even use a shirt in court Not even if you were the judge? Nah I would sit naked in my robe
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Post by PinkFloyd on Apr 11, 2010 22:19:12 GMT
Hi .... I am your judge for today (wearing a "fck' dancing, let's fck'" T-shirt)...... If you have any complaints about the jury speak now....
The "jury" are all wearing shirts with ipods and amps in the pockets.... they are engrossed in their "tunes".... tra la la la la.....
You are charged with NOT wearing a shirt in a public place, how do you plead?
;D
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2010 22:33:06 GMT
All too often lately, you hear about people being hurt or killed because they are too isolated from the real world . IMO, people who cross city streets with IEMs or headphones on, should be fined by the police.The same should apply to cyclists etc.when in traffic.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Apr 11, 2010 22:48:05 GMT
All too often lately, you hear about people being hurt or killed because they are too isolated from the real world . IMO, people who cross city streets with IEMs or headphones on, should be fined by the police.The same should apply to cyclists etc.when in traffic. Personally I think the traffic should just run them over.... no need for police intervention.... People that need to "isolate" themselves from social interaction deserve to be run over IMO, they are a waste of space.... we NEED to communicate on a REAL basis otherwise it's all just a big waste of time.
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Post by JohnnyBlue on Apr 12, 2010 7:18:18 GMT
All too often lately, you hear about people being hurt or killed because they are too isolated from the real world . IMO, people who cross city streets with IEMs or headphones on, should be fined by the police.The same should apply to cyclists etc.when in traffic. Personally I think the traffic should just run them over.... no need for police intervention.... People that need to "isolate" themselves from social interaction deserve to be run over IMO, they are a waste of space.... we NEED to communicate on a REAL basis otherwise it's all just a big waste of time. In theory, I agree with you, but have you ever got the 6.37am from East Grinstead? No, I thought not!
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Post by PinkFloyd on Apr 12, 2010 9:26:51 GMT
Personally I think the traffic should just run them over.... no need for police intervention.... People that need to "isolate" themselves from social interaction deserve to be run over IMO, they are a waste of space.... we NEED to communicate on a REAL basis otherwise it's all just a big waste of time. In theory, I agree with you, but have you ever got the 6.37am from East Grinstead? No, I thought not! I travelled to work on the tube every day of my life when I lived in London.... in those days there were smoking carriages and non smoking carriages..... back then people used to ignore each other with newspapers.... all you saw was a row of bodies sitting there with newspapers hiding their faces..... you got the occasional "nutter" that came on occasionally saying hello to everyone but, apart from that, it was a pretty silent journey. Total opposite where I live now.... they all know each other on the bus and all you hear is "yap yap yap yap" the entire journey.... even the bus driver joins in the conversation.
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