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Post by lecky on May 6, 2010 11:16:40 GMT
OK, couldn't resist - Ian, I have your whole mod. The final of the five holes I placed in the back lower quarter made a more dramatic difference than any one of the others, it does a lot of work for the soundstage. At the moment the treble is on the hot side again, we'll see if that settles down, less (treble) would definitely be more at the moment. Until that last hole there was a sort of mid bass colour that was holding it back too, it's still marginally present, but not significantly. By the way my 'control' can for tuning these is a set of HD580s, and I can certainly use just a little more treble than that offers.
In addition I've been damping the plastic some more - all of the spiders between the holes in the baffle that I've been cutting have bits of butyl on them and the frame which mates with the baffle and the cups is damped similarly. It's not too heavy.
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Post by lecky on May 6, 2010 18:56:06 GMT
With a lot of listening today, but still not really a lot of hours: there's lots to like, and I'm happy listening lots to it, but that said... The current treble heat has a tendency to brings high hats right next to my ear, which rather works against the nice soundstage. There's still a tone problem with lower mids / upper bass, and if I listen to the rumbling opening of Stravinsky's Firebird it's just a horrible mess, but these are both things that may well come together with more burn in. Time will tell...
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toad
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Post by toad on May 6, 2010 19:38:56 GMT
I used mine for several hours a day for about 3 or four weeks I'd say before they really settled down. Especially the top end. A hundred hours, maybe a little more I wasn't keeping a precise count of hours.
Ian
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Post by lecky on May 7, 2010 11:17:53 GMT
Overnight with more loud white noise has made a very big difference again, most markedly with the treble. All for the good. We'll see how far this goes...
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2010 13:04:07 GMT
What ever happened to my Skytronics right before most parts disappeared in the trashcan. Well The drivers are very good/excellent and the pads have been salvaged. The cord has been cut in 2 and one half is used on the HD681. The housing of the Skytronic is about the crappiest I have ever come acros (logical considering the price). You need to bend the wires on top so they kind of fit. I hated the fact that it only swivels in one direction and not both as most other cans do. If you have bent it so it fits your head others can't use it anymore. So.... good drivers,... crappy housing... that screems for a 'ClausDK' style mod. I had a housing of a donor DT990 lying around for some years now. All I needed to do was to make the drivers fit in that housing. Very easy to do. see the pics. modded Skytronic drivers. Drivers in DT990 housing. closed it up. Only the wiring needs to be adressed. What happened to the sound you ask ? Perfect, really like the Beyerdynamic feel too (soft cushions and good fit with low clamping force) The sound is nothing like it was in the original housing. Better lows (not much deeper but some the DT990 housing and pads make THE difference) and sweet highs and beautiful mids. Tossed the Superlux aside for some serious listening to these fine cans.... Toad thanks again for making me buy these drivers !! an absolute steal for 25 Euros ! and I get to put my DT990 housing to good use. So now it is a Skyerdynamic DT350 I guess... really love it.
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toad
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Post by toad on May 7, 2010 17:03:26 GMT
Wow they look great frans. I'm really jealous
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Post by lecky on May 7, 2010 19:07:30 GMT
I can see what will happen if I ever kill the drivers on my old 600ohm DT990s...
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2010 19:11:12 GMT
They look the business Frans, and sound good too, well done i am impressed Mick.
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toad
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Post by toad on May 8, 2010 7:05:19 GMT
I hated the fact that it only swivels in one direction and not both as most other cans do. I've just noticed your comment Frans. My Skytronics do swivel in both directions. Not far admittedly but certainly far enough.
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leo
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Team wtf is it?
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Post by leo on May 8, 2010 9:22:26 GMT
Very impressive Frans
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Post by lecky on May 9, 2010 8:43:39 GMT
As they are now, they're pretty amazing for the price. Compared to HD580s they sound a bit muddled, a bit incoherent, a bit forced, perhaps it's partly instrument separation / placement, perhaps it's the slight mid-bass hump. Compared to modded orthodynamic Fostex T50RPs they totally lack detail, but they do present a very pleasant impression, and an airiness that is nice, and can present some magic moments that other headphones don't. An impressionist headphone can sound very nice. They're worth having even if they get no better, and I guess and hope that there's a way to go...
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toad
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Post by toad on May 9, 2010 17:14:35 GMT
Glad you're liking them Lecky. Thre's just something about them isn't there As for getting better I think they do up to about 100-120 hours (best guess, so give or take a few hours) with the highs being the last thing to settle down. Ian They still aren't quite as detailed as my AKG K701s but I love them. They are just such a fun can.
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Post by lecky on May 9, 2010 19:42:23 GMT
There is indeed something very pleasing about them. The highs are really quite good at this point, certainly one of the strong points.
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Post by lecky on May 15, 2010 9:20:44 GMT
I'm up to 60 or 70 hours of burn-in I guess. At this point in direct comparison with HD580s (both amped through the headphone out of a Mission Cyrus One, which does the job well for both) the Skytronics are simply better in many ways. The tonal relations are similar, the Skytronics still being a bit warmer in the mids, but only ever so marginally, the treble of the Skytronic is more extended / less curtailed than the HD580, the Skytronic is simply a lot more detailed than the HD580 - the HD580 sounds nice, and 'liquid' with anything but lacks in detail and texture, whereas the Skytronic is more revealing of recordings, more detailed and better at rendering texture. Metaphorically, the edges sound less rounded off on the Skytronic. The added texture / detail makes intimate recordings sound more intimate than on the HD580s, so the headstage and soundstage are more recording dependent on the Skytronic, but both can do a respectable soundstage, the 580 being, I think, more amp dependent in this respect. HD580s are more comfortable, but the Skytronics aren't uncomfortable.
The Fostex still typically provide a lot more detail still, and a more present, solid sound. But the openness of the Skytronic can now sometimes show up some resonances in the closed Fostex enclosures (I'm going to rehouse the fostex drivers which will change the balance again).
Wow.
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toad
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Post by toad on May 15, 2010 12:50:01 GMT
As I've said before. The best audio bargain out there Glad you're enjoying them Lecky.
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Post by lecky on May 18, 2010 8:49:18 GMT
Playing around with earpads again... I found the Stax O2 pads make a small difference - they sound clearer, but the music loses a little presence, they sound a bit boring. Currently they have Goldring DR50 pads on with the reticulated foam from a DT990 under them. The sound is distinctly clearer, as with the O2 pads, the tone is slightly changed, the slight warmth in the mids is less, the treble sounds a bit harder edged. A sine sweep confirms that bits of treble are louder, perhaps because these pads don't cover the modded baffle holes as much as stock pads. Mmmm, I suspect that the extra clarity of the DR50 pads is worth the treble, although I quite like the signature of the stock pads... Perhaps I'll need to modify the mod for these pads.
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toad
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Post by toad on May 18, 2010 15:01:28 GMT
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Post by lecky on May 19, 2010 10:33:23 GMT
Ian, I will add to the Skytronics page of Claus's guide, but will do so when I've resolved the mods and am sure that I have all the required hours of burn-in (I suspect I might be about there on that).
After some careful comparisons I found the DR50 pads suck out the mids just a little and add too much treble, they sounded cold, the advantages were in the end less than the disadvantages. So they weren't the solution. I think I'm closer though...
I tried the DT990 reticulated foam under the stock pads and it does a subtle but good job of opening up the soundstage a bit and clearing up the sound without losing the balance of the phones - the modded holes are not so smothered by the pads, so they can do their job, and perhaps a little more space between ear and driver might be helping. Luckily in the post today I got a sheet of 5mm thick reticulated foam, stuff sold as speaker grille foam. I've cut out doughnuts of this - the same shape as the pads, and put them under the pads. This is a fantastic mod so far. The soundstage and air are distinctly improved, there might be a slight touch more treble but the balance is still very good, bass remains adequate. As a bonus comfort seems to be improved too. I'll listen to them for a while and if it remains a good upgrade on balance I don't mind sending out some foam doughnuts for anyone to try, or pointing people to my source of reticulated foam, it's not expensive and it should be useful stuff.
Unless some glaring problem shows itself this looks like being a really great mod - playing to the strengths of these headphones, and keeping it cheap. I'll report back...
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Post by lecky on May 20, 2010 7:30:50 GMT
OK, lost of Skytronic work and listening yesterday. My conclusion was that effectively opening up the space behind the pads, over the holes with reticulated foam makes Ian's mod more efficient, so less holes are needed to deliver an equivalent balance, so now I have just two holes at the front (next to each other either side of the front lower screw) and two half holes at the back (one just above the back lower screw and one exactly next to the back upper screw). The result is that the soundstage is still improved over the standard mod; airiness seems better; instrument placement was not really great with the original, it's better now; clarity is improved - there's always a sense of hearing the sound of the headphones rather than the music in the mids of the original mod, it's a very nice sound, so not a big problem, but better now I think. The negative is that the treble can be a little hard in some recordings - for instance Rocks Off on the re-release of the Stones' Exile on Main Street, which doesn't sound like a very nice recording on any of my equipment, sounds a bit harsh in treble. But for most music it sounds extremely good, it's difficult to tell if the headphones are at fault or if it's the recordings - quite possibly the latter, since good clear recordings are never harsh. A compromise can be had by using a piece of foam without the hole, so it covers the driver, a little of all the good stuff is set back but the treble hardness just a bit too, and it ends up still a bit ahead of Ian's mod I think. A mid-way can be reached by using the thin soft reticulated foam such as I have from a DT990 and putting that over the main doughnut foam. But these are really subtleties... At this point I recommend this theme as a way to improve significantly on Ian's mod. This is the foam I used: cgi.ebay.co.uk/Acoustic-Speaker-Front-Grill-Foam-1000mm-x-500mm-x-5mm-/160426763332?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_AudioVideoElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_HiFiSpeakers&hash=item255a2e2444#ht_2893wt_941
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toad
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Post by toad on May 20, 2010 9:54:29 GMT
I've ordered some of the foam and will try it out when I get a chance. I'm looking forward to hearing the changes.
Cheers for the info lecky.
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Post by lecky on May 20, 2010 15:59:16 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2010 17:50:16 GMT
Sounds like its worth doing lecky, will give it a go on mine. Mick.
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Post by lecky on May 20, 2010 19:13:03 GMT
It's certainly worth playing around with - you'll find yourself balancing soundstage and clarity against a hardened treble (etched, I suppose), but I think you'll probably find a balance that works better for you overall than with nothing behind the pads, I'm still tinkering with the balance as I get to listen to more types of music - a half hour of Bartok violin sonata just had me changing for the full discs of foam in place of the rings, but it's detail really and I can picture different people preferring different balances...
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Post by lecky on May 21, 2010 10:03:38 GMT
To try to bypass the issue of having to balance that slightly hard treble with the foam I'm taking a different tack...
I took out all of the paper covering the holes (I'd been using micropore as a substitute for the original) and replace it with a ring of yellow dishcloth - I'm using Tesco's cheapest own brand which is like a cheap synthetic slightly papery felt. It breathes quite well. The result is that there is no glare, the treble is present, but not exaggerated, not recessed, but perhaps the attack is reduced. It could be too much. I'm using the foam ring rather than disc over this, so there's only the gauze of the earpad between ear and driver. I think this is the right approach but not the optimal material... it's probably just slightly overdamping the passive radiator holes. More to follow.
Damn this is fun. Getting closer...
By the way the springs of the head supports broke and I've just got them tied together with a piece of cloth across the top - works fine.
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Post by lecky on May 21, 2010 10:36:33 GMT
OK... little by little...
I cut a ring/doughnut of fine gauge light cotton fabric (nice white poker dots on a baby blue base) to cover the passive radiator holes and that really underdamps them, but without the treble sounding quite etched like the paper. so I cut one of the doughnuts of yellow Tesco dishcloth in half and placed one half on each ring on cotton to the back of the head (remembering that Ian had opened more holes at the front, and following this principle). So with the holes at the back damped by dishcloth and cotton, and the holes at the front damped by cotton only, and with the foam doughnuts over them, the treble is totally extended, and perhaps a little full on for some, but without the hardness/etch. Soundstage and imaging are very good. I'll continue to play later to see if this can be bettered.
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