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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2010 0:02:12 GMT
I am not meaning that 6.3V is bad sound for any tubes with any circuit, I just say for my G2 only! Will the very low voltage increase the risk of cathode poisoning ? Brimar recommended in their handbbook that heater voltages should be kept within +-5%
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leo
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Post by leo on Mar 19, 2010 0:10:20 GMT
I am not meaning that 6.3V is bad sound for any tubes with any circuit, I just say for my G2 only! Will the very low voltage increase the risk of cathode poisoning ? Brimar recommended in their handbbook that heater voltages should be kept within +-5% Cathode poisoning was actually my concern too Alex in all honesty, you know more about valves than I do but I have seen cathode poisoning in valves before in some of the old guitar amps
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csdam
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Post by csdam on Mar 19, 2010 0:13:55 GMT
I am not meaning that 6.3V is bad sound for any tubes with any circuit, I just say for my G2 only! Will the very low voltage increase the risk of cathode poisoning ? Brimar recommended in their handbbook that heater voltages should be kept within +-5% No, Don't worry, G2 is very low Volts on anode, it will extend the tube life when heater burn in 5V.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2010 0:23:04 GMT
Will the very low voltage increase the risk of cathode poisoning ? Brimar recommended in their handbbook that heater voltages should be kept within +-5% Cathode poisoning was actually my concern too Alex in all honesty, you know more about valves than I do but I have seen cathode poisoning in valves before in some of the old guitar amps Leo That was one of my main concerns, but back in the "good old days" valves were run at much higher Anode voltages than recent offerings, so as the man says, the risk of cathode poisoning is most likely negligible. I still believe that an increase in Anode voltages to at least double what is being mainly used these days because of (I suspect) plugpack availability, may further improve performance without increasing the risks to DIYers. Alex
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csdam
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Post by csdam on Mar 19, 2010 0:30:47 GMT
So long brother! HK time AM:8.30 now, bye.
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leo
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Post by leo on Mar 19, 2010 0:47:50 GMT
At least thats one question cleared up
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2010 7:43:49 GMT
The traditional rule is not the law !! 6.3V is standard, so it sounds standard ! 5V is not reasonable, but we prove it sounds good ! We think with new idea, why not? I enjoyed reading that. Thanks Peter! ;D There has been a lot of debate here recently about measurements/listening and when I read that from yourself, I must admit, it made me chuckle. You don't realise what you may have started now ....... I can't wait to hear the Indeed. Many thanks for your generous offer to allow us to pass one round members and discuss it here. At least we're all talking from hearing it which is the most important thing. Also, thank you for appearing here and chatting to us. I know what it's like to be on the end of critics ... believe me!!!!! Hopefully, this will end up as an amazing amp for the cost (as it is now I suspect) with little tweaks. (Even the addition of rubber feet will make a difference for some people with curly headphone leads) I stuck bluetak on my 'copy' and stuck it to my desk top. Peter won't know about 'Little Britain' but the measurement/listening debate always makes me think of that comedy .... "The computer says 'no' ''. Ian
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2010 8:08:30 GMT
Ian Leo measuring the filament voltage at 5.09V , was the first inkling that any of us have had about that major departure from conventional wisdom. Without knowing those details it would be very hard for you or anybody else to receive informed advice about rectifying any problems that arose with the unit. We would have been chasing our tails without that knowledge. Alex P.S. Since when have Leo or myself normally aligned ourselves with the rigid measurement camp that Frans, and Robert to a lesser extent, belong to ? Would you prefer us to ask no questions , and leave you guys to the BS often handed out by less informative designers ?
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Post by PinkFloyd on Mar 19, 2010 10:02:34 GMT
If all devices build according to the standard specification, there will be the same performance and same effect. We have find out why the Hi End product sounds specially and high price? The answer here¡there are also out of spc !! That actually makes a LOT of sense!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2010 11:38:10 GMT
Nice picture Alex. That made me chuckle too. Stop getting on your high chair. It was just the rather nice way Peter put it after all the discussion that has happened here before! I'm not having a dig at anyone. I'm looking forward to hearing the Bravo. Since when have Leo or myself normally aligned ourselves with the rigid measurement camp that Frans, and Robert to a lesser extent, belong to ? Would you prefer us to ask no questions , and leave you guys to the BS often handed out by less informative designers ? Who mentioned you, Leo, Frans or Robert? I didn't. I also don't think that the Indeed is a BS design or Peter a less informative designer. Not if you go by listening in any case. (To the Bravo and Miridy) Are these statements coming from your inner thoughts or is this what people really think. If you think I was having a dig, then I wasn't. There is no agenda with me whatsoever. My Bravo is being modified so I can compare it to the Miridy which is basically the same thing, so I may be able to detect any differences following some modding. I'm perfectly open to any idea that sounds good. I don't care if it is 3, 4 5 6, or 10v. If it breaks down early, then there is an issue, but I don't have any with it at all. I think they're rather good. I have no hidden agenda as far as measurers and listeners go. I don't scoff the measurers and I also don't scoff the listeners. Both have their place. Frans has already said this too. I get a bit bored by incessant figures becasue they mean nothing to me, but apart from that, I have no feelings either way. Would you prefer us to ask no questions No. Of course not. However, I can't see what all this stuff you've written has got to do with the fact that I was having a chuckle about it. I can't understand why my post caused you offence. Blimey, better shut my trap eh? I use the only thing I can. My ears. Ian
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2010 12:18:43 GMT
IF the schematics are rather unchanged you can get the glowing voltage up again by turning up the anode voltage to the specified ? 16.5 Volts. This will set the glowing voltage to 6.5 volts (or near) again and make the LM317 work as a proper current source should. ;D 12V on the anode means 8 Volt on the input of the LM317. the minimum required voltage drop between in and output = 1.8Volts So 6.2 volts on the output. the adj. pin is 1.25 Volts lower, hence the 5V on the glowing voltage. Now for the explanation of Peter. He states 5V on heater prolongs life of the tube. He is right when you talk about lifespan of the filament which I do NOT see as a potential problem and agree with Alex on the 6.3 spec. and emission problem bit. 5 Volt on the glowing voltage means the LM317 is NOT in normal operation but at it's absolute minimum. The LM317 as it is now (12V anode, 5V glowing) is NOT in optimal setting and this may cause it to perform sonically better as Peter suggests. The G1 schematic suggests around 16 to 17 Volts anode voltage is optimal. WHO is right here.. or is it something subjective ? I tend to believe Mike the most here (16.5V being optimal setting to his ears). Also keeping the glowing voltage at 5V means it will take the tube (much ?) longer to reach it's desired emission and thus anode voltage.. Perhaps Ian will/can do the adjustment/listening part with the G2 and post his findings. He has my vote for having a good set of ears. When sending along he could set it back to the original setting or leave it at another setting if all agree. If you want to have more headroom from the amp may I suggest the IRF530 (will be put in Ian's amp if it works better IMO). The GS voltage drop will be 2V instead of 4V incresing the maximum output voltage range.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2010 12:28:34 GMT
Frans,
Just a quickie - has the Bravo arrived?
Ian
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Post by MaN227 on Mar 19, 2010 12:40:41 GMT
Nice picture Alex. That made me chuckle too. Stop getting on your high chair. It was just the rather nice way Peter put it after all the discussion that has happened here before! I'm not having a dig at anyone. I'm looking forward to hearing the Bravo. Ian Alex always has his sword at ready ;D I'm getting used to it personally I think the differences we have in here are great. It takes ALL kinds to make this world go round. hard to get a different ( read better ) result in sound, not measurements, if everyone follows the same pattern . Makes perfect sense to me. I wonder now how long its going to be till the knock offs start to appear with a clone. cough bravo , cough miridiy ;D one major disappointment to me is the fact that our rock grotto discount turns out the be top dollar instead. only 2 G2's have sold for more than our .... erf deal , with EVERY other one selling for less via auction. like 20 to 30 dollars less . THAT suks. and for paying a high price I/WE in the first 10 get no feet to boot sigh I've not heard enough of it to say if I like it better than the G1. I like the design differences, better hp socket, switch for diff tube families, nice on/off in and out rca. Nice not to have that awful on/off popping ....but sound wise ..... I can't say just yet, about the only thing I can say it seems to have a bit less noise, distortion if that is what you want to call it. Certainly not the improvement I thought would be apparent from the get go. Mabye I was expecting too much, maybe not , but 36 dollars different .... so far I have not heard special price pffff if I/We had waited I/We could have saved 20-30 dollars .... but no . And I can't believe no one else seems the least bit bothered by how the "special price" for us panned out. I feel like we were more taken advantage of rather than given an actual special intro price. Because of our, prior to market, interest in the G2. Your milage may vary but to me, it is just like I said it. In this regard, disappointed indeed
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2010 13:14:05 GMT
You have to remember Chaz, that the final Auction price is set by those that are bidding, ok you can build in a reserve price, perhaps $89.99 which most of us have paid, would have been nice, to alleviate your point, so annoying yes, but that`s Auctions for you, if these Amps prove to be popular, i think you will find, that bidding will go higher, and probably more than we have paid. No matter what view members take on this, these Amps are still excellent value for money at $89.99, in my opinion.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2010 13:39:26 GMT
BTW, without the rubber feet it would be sliding about all over so thanks for adding those before sending it We have added a rubber ring now! Mk2 & G2 already! www.hifi88.cn/HPMK2p.jpg[/img] [/quote] This is how the clear feet look!!!!
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Post by PinkFloyd on Mar 19, 2010 14:09:11 GMT
Chaz...... I don't think we've been "ripped off" paying $89.99 I still consider it a bargain and to have the manufacturer / designer "in house" to answer our questions is very good As Mick said... the market will "find itself".... if these amps prove very popular then the bidding will go higher.... Personally speaking I'd prefer to see a fixed price as it prevents bad feeling when one guy pays more than another for the same thing.... I think it also looks better setting a fixed price, if they started going for $9.99 in auction it would cheapen the overall impression of the amp. $89.99 equates to £59 GBP...... £59 for an amp that sounds this good is an absolute steal, I consider it one hell of a bargain! especially with all the "support" and "fun" that we'll end up having with it on here.... £59 is a very reasonable entry price IMO. Some people pay that for a dinner!
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Post by MaN227 on Mar 19, 2010 14:57:11 GMT
my comments have nothing to do with good amp great amp crap amp bad amp. I guess i am alone in my thinking , that is fine I'm used to that lol you all can hang your hat on it being a bargin cause its so good and speculate to future demand. the fact of the matter is it was put across as a deal for us here and find after the first 10 many many others get for less then my/our special price. again it has NOTHING to do what how good it is or is not, simply price . I am NEVER happy to know I paid 30 dollars more than I needed to for ANY item. but the kicker is the special intro price 90 instead of 115, there were even 2 listing made with the 115 price, a sense of urgency was created by such. I don't care who understands it and /or agrees with it, or does not. I stand by what I say. its WRONG , lets put it simply 60usd I MIGHT consider a special intro price not 90usd. I'll give you all 3 guesses where i get the 60 dollar number from. Cause that's what the "throw away accounts" run EVERY auction up and over. so the auctions aren't really true auctions as there IS a reserve or sorts with garbage bidders. I did my research. do yours. Are we so afraid to anger the maker that we can't see us first 10 payed much more that we should have. and again nothing to do with how good or bad the amp is. why is this so hard to get across? maybe 25 to 30 dollars is more to me on my limited income than it is for others but I still say its wrong what was done with this price we got. special my ass
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2010 15:33:38 GMT
Your not alone on thinking the way you are Chaz, everybody wants and expects value for money. But INDEED need to sell as many Amps as possible, to get them known and accepted as a market leader in the quality for the buck Amp market. Is Peter using this Forum as a vehicle to achieve this, my guess is Yes, he is a business man at the end of the day, but my philosophy is, am i happy with the price i have paid, for the item i have, compared to the highly inflated prices that i have paid in the past for lesser sounding equipment, and the answer is YES. If you adopt this attitude, you don`t get eaten up inside, thinking you have been ripped off. Hope this helps my friend.
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csdam
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Post by csdam on Mar 19, 2010 15:33:47 GMT
Hello, brothers !! I back here now!!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2010 15:40:28 GMT
Hi Peter can you read and comment on the last few replies concerning the pricing and marketing of your Amplifiers.
Thank you very much.
Mick.
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Post by covenant on Mar 19, 2010 16:16:07 GMT
Perhaps I shouldn't have posted the figure I got it for on Ebay, I hadn't read the bit about the group buy however there will always be the odd bargain around.
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csdam
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Post by csdam on Mar 19, 2010 16:31:18 GMT
Hi Peter can you read and comment on the last few replies concerning the pricing and marketing of your Amplifiers. Thank you very much. Mick. Hello Mick, I feel very disappointed about the compliant. As you said ¡° manufacturer/ design¡± and the labour cost is quite high in China now. If I reduce the price under US$89.99, then it is not fair to the 10 buyers, but ¡®buy it now¡¯ on Ebay is US$114.99 and there has 3 buyers paid for US$114.99 for the amp. They all knew there has auctions on Ebay and there have some buyers bid the item higher than US$90-. I am doing business, I must expect my product would sell in a good price but there has too many competitors so the auction price cannot go up. I have confidence that my product will be popular very soon because I really try my best to do the product.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2010 16:44:48 GMT
Thank you for your reply Peter, hope your answer will satisfy the other Forum members, personally i am very happy with the price that i have paid for my G2, and the performance i get for that price.
Thank you very much.
Mick.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2010 16:48:10 GMT
Peter,
The amp is extremely good and the money issue is perhaps more to do with Ebay than the actual price. It also doesn't help having copies out there in the same market at very much lower prices.
I also appreciate that the copies may well be inferior in build which is why I am so looking forward to hearing the Indeed amp when I have the sample that you sent to Mike to listen to.
These other amps are obviously competing head on with you and are using the same circuit board and exactly the same design. I have two of them and they both sound extremely good, so I am hoping that the Indeed will edge them out a little. It may be however, just a question of build quality and reliability as well.
Your amps are still very good value and sound magnificent but there is the problem of the copies which are also actually good sounding.
Regards
Ian
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csdam
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Post by csdam on Mar 19, 2010 17:00:34 GMT
At least thats one question cleared up The cathode poisoning was appearing in big power valve usually; it is hard to happen in small signal valve. We have trimming the G2 carefully before ship; the Volts on the plate also turning in 14-16.5V(pin 1 & pin 6 of tube) The measurement in heater (pin 4 & pin 5 6922EH) is 5.7V when the plate V is 14V. Heater 6V when the plate is 15V Heater 6.3V when the plate is 16.5V ¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡ We find that it has very smooth and sweet sound when it 5.5V in heater. Believer or not? Try it !!
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