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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2010 23:18:26 GMT
Frans Do you still have the one in the original 70V design ? There are quite a few who love these devices, how about if you can find the time, to send a quick effort to Ian Craig ? Ian would without doubt be impartial. Alex
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2010 23:21:41 GMT
Send it to me, I do not have an indeed, but I have other good stuff lying around.. And since I do not have any idea what you guys are talking about, I have no side in this.. Claus I am sure that going by your previously expressed preferences, that you would love it, but I think it should first go to someone who already has one, and loves it to death. That is assuming that Frans or Robert can find the spare time to knock one up. Alex
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Post by clausdk on Feb 25, 2010 23:39:30 GMT
The only way for an amp to become a "Rockgrotto"amp is to: 1. Be available in kit, at least parts of it. 2. Be cheap. 3. Have potential. 4. Have a couple of owners here. Then if someone start modding then things, can take of quite rapidly. All this "blueprint" is not everyday reading for many people here, you could tell me it was the water system in your house and I would believe you.. ;D ;D I am also happy, to say that this place has to many and to big personalities, to ever concour on anything at anytime, but when they do work toogether, wonders can happen.. I am here for the ego's, nerds and weirdos I consider my self near that level, so to speak This is what makes this forum great.. And frustrating.. My 2 cents
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Post by MaN227 on Feb 26, 2010 0:08:13 GMT
thx Frans, thx Alex, I digress on the playing nice , and will try not to read too much into things from here on out I do however think that your/Frans' idea and desires to start this is good being that you have physically made the amp u have made. And to touch on something Mike said about not working, he himself wanted to make an amp with input from others, so I assume his thoughts at this point come from what happened to that, and may be trying to spare you angst and frustration. Everyone has their ideas of what works what don't whats best what is sh!t. and he touched on something I find right on point (as postings on the RG have shown) its much easier in one's head/heart to mock up something that any and all can have input in, then it is to make it come to fruition. I think if you (frans) know what it is you are after (I"m fairly certain you do), you stated an amp similar to Indeed/Bravo, and already made one. Just put the info out to others to help Tweak it a bit not redesign what you have done. take what they say and use their idea's or not. I think you KNOW what you want, just do it brother trying to determine interest (and therefore sales) is damn near impossible, before commitment. I will say ONE last thing and try my best to stay out of things and let those that know things speak. word of /and therefore interest in any piece of gear that is deemed "worth it" WILL sell. and it only takes a few good words from a few of the right/respected folks at various hifi forums to give a nod to your designed and completed product. you have been around here and there long enough to know that, I'm sure. If its deemed good and "worth it" it will sell , whether its actually worth the money or not *wink wink Case in point, my buying of the modded superlux hd-681's from you, the indeed amp as talked up by Mike. Every single piece of gear I ever bought came from some person/ or persons in these headphone forums, suggestions/reviews or both. See there are MANY people out there JUST like me, who do not possess the knowledge to decipher all the finer details of all that is headphone nirvana, but we do like to think we can be a bit closer to nirvana due to those such as yourself that share with others, their knowledge. Peace and SMILES to all : D send that Mother Honker over here Frans, I'll give it a listen to compare w/ Indeed man lol
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robertkd
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Electronics Engineer from sunny Queensland
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Post by robertkd on Feb 26, 2010 1:37:49 GMT
What the,....heck happened here??
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2010 6:37:47 GMT
@ Mike and alike . Ever wondered about how someone's brain and perception can be altered/fooled by: Hypnosis, alcohol, drugs, medicines, stress, mood, time e.t.c. ? You go right ahead and live in your High-End world where you can always rely on one thing: Your unmistakable, highly trained, super perceptive and trusty old EARS. I prefer to walk tall in the REAL world and put to you: No, You're all right. hmmm.... a funny thing... I suddenly hear words in my head... No your wrong.. and... BUT I can's.. There must be something wrong with my brain and ears after all. Solderdude OUT (with a bang)
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2010 6:59:49 GMT
@ Mike and alike . Ever wondered about how someone's brain and perception can be altered/fooled by: Hypnosis, alcohol, drugs, medicines, stress, mood, time e.t.c. ? You go right ahead and live in your High-End world where you can always rely on one thing: Your unmistakable, highly trained, super perceptive and trusty old EARS. I prefer to walk tall in the REAL world and put to you: No, You're all right. hmmm.... a funny thing... I suddenly hear words in my head... No your wrong.. and... BUT I can's.. There must be something wrong with my brain and ears after all. Solderdude OUT (with a bang) I have sent Frans a PM. I would hope that he does not leave RG under such unfortunate circumstances. A lot of RG members have benefitted from his freely given time, expertise, and generosity. Frans expertise is also 2nd to none in the electronics area, and I for one value his contributions, although there are a couple of very minor areas of disagreement between us. Alex P.S. I consider Frans as a friend too ! We have quite a lot in common, and as it turns out, a similar kind of warped humour .
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2010 7:00:48 GMT
@ Solderdude OUT (with a bang) You'll be back..... The thing is, I have a problem with this thread because it's stemmed from something I've not seen before on RG. The fact that something many of us actually like can be made better because of inherent design faults. I absolutely accept the design faults, but then I don't accept that there is a design that's perfect either. Then the idea became to build an equivalent. So we were all asked what we wanted. I can only equate this to music ... if I was going to write an RG rock anthem ..... describe to me what you'd want in the correct terms and I'll compose it. In other words, many people would be excluded from the task unless they were musicians. Musicians would argue about what is best to have in the piece until the cows come home and that's what happened here. Either you have the knowledge or it's best to be quiet. Then it went on with real ideas from the guys who know. The next thing that occurred to me was that it is going to cost more than a Bravo. It turns out it would. Therefore, is it better than a Bravo if it is more expensive? So perhaps the Bravo makes those compromises because of price then? It seems to have become a battle of pride over a bloody valve amp and I have felt uncomfortable with it so feel that I can't say much because I don't have the knowledge and could potentially look daft. I only have ears and I'm a musician. I just say what I hear which, I know to engineers, is a laughable thought. They do that regularly to me at work!!! I was happier with the thread that started life as a Cmoy, because the ego part was missing and it was going to be a genuine attempt at a DIY kit. However, once the orchestra gets too large, then you can no longer hear the individual instruments and it becomes a wall of sound. A great pity. What was the point of this thread - to prove that a Bravo is crap. To prove that a better version could be made. (We all know that any way) If we spend more money than the original Bravo, surely it shows that the Bravo isn't that bad for the cost? This has turned into a discussion pretty typical of some other sites and I never thought that it would appear here as soon as it has. I don't care whether anyone can build a better Bravo. We have all been talking from the aspect of cost taken into consideration as well. I'm sure you'll be back Frans. Ian
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robertkd
Been here a while!
Electronics Engineer from sunny Queensland
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Post by robertkd on Feb 26, 2010 7:21:16 GMT
Ian, no it wasn't to prove the the bravo/indeed was krap at all and started when Frans and I looked at various aspects of the design the amplifier you and many others have is what it is and for it's cost seems a great buy. Neither of us pooh canned it, we just thought of better ways of implementing it.
Seriously I am a bit surprised and disappointed at the way it's panned out and I would really like Frans to reconsider his decision.
Robert
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2010 7:27:22 GMT
Ian, no it wasn't to prove the the bravo/indeed was krap at all and started when Frans and I looked at various aspects of the design the amplifier you and many others have is what it is and for it's cost seems a great buy. Neither of us pooh canned it, we just thought of better ways of implementing it. Seriously I am a bit surprised and disappointed at the way it's panned out and I would really like Frans to reconsider his decision. Robert Ian I second what Robert is saying. Did you see the question I asked about the cathode resistor setting, and the voltage dropped across it ? Like Robert and Frans, it was a genuine attempt to find out if minor changes could result in a more stable amplifier. I also made a previous suggestion about the gain setting of the V2. This suggestion was later implemented by Mike, and resulted in a better use of the volume control , with improved tracking. Alex
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2010 7:59:05 GMT
This thread started out as a variation of the indeed. MAYBE we should honour the Bravo indeed design and cook up a technically better one and see if it will outperform the Bravo/indeed in specs and sound. This is where I got the idea from at the start of the thread that the idea was to build a better version which I thought was a great idea. Sound colouration and distortion was also mentioned since there was 'no problem with it if you liked the sound of distortion/colourisations.' (I thought that was slightly sarcastic at the time) So I presumed it was to be a 'cleaner' version. I have no worries about the fact that it could have been a better version at all but the thread seemed to turn a little ugly and slightly on the case of 'if you use your ears then ........ ' Anyway, if it gets designed, it would be nice but this did start from a Bravo/hearing discussion which is perhaps why I feel that it is a 'clone' exercise, building a better version. Alex, there is no way I want to be a tester for an amp since no-one would agree with me and I'd probably be told I had 'Brass ears'. If it was built, it would be better to send it round for conscensus and NOT compare it to the Bravo then? Ian
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2010 8:04:02 GMT
Ian How else can we decide if it is worth building at a considerably higher cost than the original, if it is isn't listened to by someone who is very familiar with the original, and enjoys listening to it ? Alex
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2010 8:06:54 GMT
Ian How else can we decide if it is worth building at a considerably higher cost than the original, if it is isn't listened to by someone who is very familiar with the original, and enjoys listening to it ? Alex Measure it!! OK ... that was tongue in cheek!! (Before you pay me back ....) Talking of tongue in cheek: Your unmistakable, highly trained, super perceptive and trusty old EARS. Did Frans mean Arse rather than ears? Or was this tongue in cheeks? Ian
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2010 8:46:52 GMT
Ian It was tongue in cheek. I have been in contact with Frans, and he will try to return when workload and health permits. Alex
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2010 8:50:59 GMT
Ian It was tongue in cheek. I have been in contact with Frans, and he will try to return when workload and health permits. Alex Oh good. He is contributing a great deal but maybe not used to the RG atmosphere....... (smokin' ) It's just that I've been seeing an awful lot of arses on here recently!! Ian
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2010 9:09:44 GMT
Ian Yes, we look like seeing a lot of them in Sydney tomorrow night too ! :oo It's the Gay Mardi Gras parade again. Alex
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leo
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Team wtf is it?
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Post by leo on Feb 26, 2010 9:46:21 GMT
Your well liked on here Frans and people very much appreciate your contributions. Discussions can sometimes get a little heated , please just don't take anything to heart on here mate
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2010 10:49:04 GMT
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Post by PinkFloyd on Feb 26, 2010 10:59:57 GMT
You go right ahead and live in your High-End world High end world? erm..... you've got the totally wrong impression of me Frans.... I'm actually pretty "low end" when it comes to audio equipment.... "boutique" gear is not for me ;D I don't know what happened here but no need for you to throw a wobbly mate.... it's an audio forum, not a shakespeare play.... just go with the flow man
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2010 11:27:35 GMT
Ian Are you sure that you haven't mixed me up with man227 ? At least I don't have Nicole Miller items hanging up somewhere ! Alex
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Post by PinkFloyd on Feb 26, 2010 11:56:27 GMT
Ian Are you sure that you haven't mixed me up with man227 ? At least I don't have Nicole Miller items hanging up somewhere ! Alex Who's Nicole Miller? and why does Chaz have her clothing hanging about in his house?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2010 13:11:37 GMT
By the way. This isn't off topic because it's still about Class A Single Ended, Variation on a Theme.
Ian
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Post by PinkFloyd on Feb 26, 2010 13:33:29 GMT
By the way. This isn't off topic because it's still about Class A Single Ended, Variation on a Theme. Ian BTW Ian, Your V2 is in the post
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2010 14:36:16 GMT
By the way. This isn't off topic because it's still about Class A Single Ended, Variation on a Theme. Ian BTW Ian, Your V2 is in the post Thanks Mike. Hope you didn't bust a gut in that weather. It looked bad. Ian
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Post by PinkFloyd on Feb 26, 2010 14:47:38 GMT
BTW Ian, Your V2 is in the post Thanks Mike. Hope you didn't bust a gut in that weather. It looked bad. Ian No mate, it was fine (freezing cold wind tho') just laden down with 27 packages I REALLY miss the car
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