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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2010 0:16:29 GMT
Mike Perhaps they do with the source material and source that you are using. However, I am quite confident that both Will and Leo will tell you that the Class A HA, clearly outperforms the SCHA, with the source material, DACs etc. that they are using. However, many members here seem to want something much simpler,and much lower in performance, that is more likely to be already available on eBay if you look hard enough. Alex
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Post by PinkFloyd on Feb 16, 2010 0:24:14 GMT
Mike Perhaps they do with the source material and source that you are using. However, I am quite confident that both Will and Leo will tell you that the Class A HA, clearly outperforms the SCHA, with the source material, DACs etc. that they are using. However, many members here seem to want something much simpler,and much lower in performance, that is more likely to be already available on eBay if you look hard enough. Alex Alex, Forget your pride and say it as it is..... the difference between an HD-600 (for example) through the head-out of an ipod and through the output of a VERY expensive amp is "minimal" ;D I have "yet" to hear this amazing "out of head" experience they all claim they have heard..... it's all bollocks...... you know it, I know it, everyone knows it yet.... NOBODY will admit it. It's like the emperors new clothes.....
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2010 0:34:46 GMT
Mike Perhaps they do with the source material and source that you are using. However, I am quite confident that both Will and Leo will tell you that the Class A HA, clearly outperforms the SCHA, with the source material, DACs etc. that they are using. However, many members here seem to want something much simpler,and much lower in performance, that is more likely to be already available on eBay if you look hard enough. Alex Alex, Forget your pride and say it as it is..... the difference between an HD-600 (for example) through the head-out of an ipod and through the output of a VERY expensive amp is "minimal" ;D I have "yet" to hear this amazing "out of head" experience they all claim they have heard..... it's all bollocks...... you know it, I know it, everyone knows it yet.... NOBODY will admit it. It's like the emperors new clothes..... Mike That is simply not possible, because every couple of months you review a new product that sounds better than everything you have heard before ! Alex
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leo
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Post by leo on Feb 16, 2010 0:35:45 GMT
With HD600 or HD650 I'd agree, they make everything sound similar imo Using something like the HD250 linear II though and things are much different
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Post by PinkFloyd on Feb 16, 2010 0:36:45 GMT
Alex, Forget your pride and say it as it is..... the difference between an HD-600 (for example) through the head-out of an ipod and through the output of a VERY expensive amp is "minimal" ;D I have "yet" to hear this amazing "out of head" experience they all claim they have heard..... it's all bollocks...... you know it, I know it, everyone knows it yet.... NOBODY will admit it. It's like the emperors new clothes..... Mike That is simply not possible, because every couple of months you review a new product that sounds better than everything you have heard before ! Alex Exactly! they all sound the fckin' same but the packaging looks better
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toad
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Post by toad on Feb 16, 2010 0:45:04 GMT
Jeez... you mean all this time I've been buying amps that made no difference at all? I don't know what you're using as a source Mike but it might be time to update it ;D
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Post by PinkFloyd on Feb 16, 2010 0:47:01 GMT
Jeez... you mean all this time I've been buying amps that made no difference at all? I don't know what you're using as a source Mike but it might be time to update it ;D You heard of "devil's advocate" ? You need one to get the discussion moving........ prove me wrong
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Post by PinkFloyd on Feb 16, 2010 7:47:07 GMT
I don't know what you're using as a source Mike but it might be time to update it ;D
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2010 7:58:56 GMT
jonclancy wrote
This is where my gut feeling says we should go, portable is obviously out of the window as too well trodden ground and most of us have at least one good amplifier.
So, how much worthwhile mileage is there in improving the Class A without leaving us nollys being totally lost?
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toad
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Post by toad on Feb 16, 2010 8:13:45 GMT
I don't know what you're using as a source Mike but it might be time to update it ;D I nearly spat my tea at the screen when I saw that! ROFL
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Sol
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Post by Sol on Feb 16, 2010 10:16:33 GMT
Do you know what I really want .. what I really really want ... is something that can take a digital output from my soundcard on either Toslink or 75 Ohm cable, and spit back out at me in headphones or small monitor speakers at my computer desktop.
So basically an integrated world class DAC and World Class headamp that can drive headphones and small speakers all from a digital input.
I'd also be happy to have a twin or triple box set where PSU is separated and if we really must the DAC and headamp module are separate ... but ideally for costs sake a single box works best surely!
Oh and because i intend to use it in the computer room, it doesn't have to look that pretty, it's not in the living room .. it's in my den, so it will be tucked away!
Sorry for the curve ball.
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toad
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Post by toad on Feb 16, 2010 10:37:38 GMT
Could be nice Sol but would put the price up considerably I would imagine.
Ian
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robertkd
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Post by robertkd on Feb 16, 2010 11:05:40 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2010 12:58:58 GMT
Those behringer jobbies look decent for casual use.
Or you could make the New HQ DIY DAC, as per that thread, and stuff it into the same setup as this thread, voila!
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bullpup
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Post by bullpup on Feb 16, 2010 18:29:04 GMT
I am watching this thread with interest as I am keen to have a go although my original preference would have been for a true portable.
Knowing damn all about electronics, it seems to me that one of the main stumbling blocks we seem to have is the cost of a serious power supply. Almost every amp tweaked on here seems to end up with a mamahonking psu. Would it therefore seem sensible to design something that runs on large re-chargeables e.g. fire alarm batteries or similar with perhaps the option of a built in charger? I seem to recall that Ben duncan designed one of these for Hifi News does any one recall it?
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jonclancy
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Post by jonclancy on Feb 16, 2010 19:50:50 GMT
Here's a pic of the J310 Pre layout. the silk isn't smashed and tidied up yet, but I think you'll get the gist of it. It runs a 24VDC input power supply that provides a sweet-spot 16V to the amplifier stage. Of course, you could use small shunt regs or whatever instead. It needs the audio out ground pads adding, or just star them all off the board... Not built, or simulated my me, but Kuma said it works well as a pre... Comments? Cheers Jon
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leo
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Post by leo on Feb 16, 2010 19:53:57 GMT
Wouldn't mind a go at that J310 Jon to try as an alternative linestage, could then try strapping bits on the output etc, hey if you ever etch one ;D I'd still like a bash at this, can use batteries too www.national.com/an/AN/AN-1768.pdf
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Post by derekrumble on Feb 18, 2010 12:46:26 GMT
I think this is the main stumbling block at the moment, what "class" are we going for? The best sounding headphone amp on the planet..... what else IS there to go for?..... "shitty sounding but lots of features"?...... Keep it simple (input / volume knob and head-out) and I believe we can (as a combined effort) make the finest headphone amp on the planet at a price that suits ALL pockets.... To be totally honest, though (as I usually am!) it will have to be BLOODY special as the majority of amps on the market sound very good. The Little bravo / Indeed amps (IMO) sound better than some £700 amps and you can pick them up from ebay for £50..... I have listened to many many amps in my time and have reached the conclusion that "there's not a lot in it" between a £50 ebay special and a £3,000 headphone amp apart from the bullshit talked by the punters who have forked out £3,000..... they have to "justify" that outlay and can only do it by talking / quoting bullshit. So, as I say.... a "Rock Grotto" amp would have to be "bloody special" and would have to make me hear things I have never heard before..... a VERY hard thing to achieve ;D I don't want to put the dampeners on the idea but, seriously guys, you won't get much better "sonically" than the likes of the Bravo / Indeed / SCHA / MF amps.... forget the "specs" and forget the "valve V SS" argument..... listen to them all, they all sound much the same ;D Mike. I'm still interested and my interest is mainly at the lower cost end of the spectrum - sub 50 quid sounds good especially as that would buy a Bravo and save the effort, plus I already have an X-DACv3. It's the DIY aspect that attracts me - and maybe I'll learn something on the way. Also I have an Alesis Multimix 8 mixer which sounds good as a h'phone amp and I still can't see how they provide all that funtionality along with stacks of knobs and sockets for such a low price (it's a 24/48 usb ADC/DAC too) so I'm not actually in need of another amp - just keen to have some creative fun... and if it sounds great too then so be it. Happy to donate some cash for development costs.
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Spirit
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Post by Spirit on Feb 18, 2010 13:19:09 GMT
jonclancy wroteThis is where my gut feeling says we should go, portable is obviously out of the window as too well trodden ground and most of us have at least one good amplifier. So, how much worthwhile mileage is there in improving the Class A without leaving us nollys being totally lost? This would be where my vote goes. Seems everything else is readily available elsewhere. If you want something cheaper, build an scha ;D
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robertkd
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Post by robertkd on Feb 18, 2010 13:40:17 GMT
ummm
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2010 20:17:36 GMT
ummm Robert Is this going to clearly outperform your own version of the SC HA ? If not, then it doesn't meet the design brief. It is going to need a decent PCB design too because of the buffer's high speed capabiities. Alex
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insomniac
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Post by insomniac on Feb 19, 2010 1:28:04 GMT
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robertkd
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Post by robertkd on Feb 19, 2010 12:15:51 GMT
What would be nice is packaging the LME49610 as a TO220, with the additional power dissipation that comes with it, other then attempting to keep the amplifier simple it's SMD package is a PITA
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Will
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Post by Will on Feb 19, 2010 12:39:46 GMT
The lme49600/610 has cropped up a few times now, are we going to try this one out?
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robertkd
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Post by robertkd on Feb 19, 2010 15:22:33 GMT
Will LME49600/610 is essentially the output stage of the SCHA amplifier (have a look at my posted SCHA mods) it isn't an op amp.
My biggest hassle with it is the tab is at the negative supply, it's limited to -+22V the tab connection complicates heatsinking a tad
Otherwise it makes a nice high gain current buffer for the likes of LME49710 or such
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