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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2012 7:33:22 GMT
Why 2 different versions of the same amplifier ? This has to do with physical size (mainly of the heat-sinks), supply voltage, output voltage, output resistance and headphone impedance. The Horizon works on 48V DC and the Sunrise (II) on 24V Because the topology of these amps is single ended class-A and power consumption of both amps is about the same (14.5W Sunrise-II and 17W Horizon both channels together) this division becomes a fact of life. Because of the higher supply voltage the Horizon has a much larger output voltage swing (14V), the Sunrise II has 6V. For this reason the Horizon is best suited for: headphones between 120 Ohm and 600 Ohm and to drive any headphones that can best be driven by a 120 Ohm source. The Sunrise-II is optimized for driving headphones between 16 Ohm and 120 Ohm. This doesn't mean the Horizon cannot be used for 32 and 60 Ohms headphones, nor doesn't mean the Sunrise-II is not suited for 300 Ohm headphones. The Horizon will deliver at least 200mW (the maximum rating for a lot of headphones) in all headphones between 32 Ohm and 600 Ohm regardless of output resistance setting (0 Ohm to 120 Ohm output resistance setting) and, dependent of conditions, can deliver max 650mW. In 32 Ohm headphones, on low output resistance setting (5 Ohm), the Sunrise-II can deliver 900mW, the horizon 'merely' manages 180mW. In 600 Ohm HP's the Horizon can pump 300mW but the Sunrise only manages 60mW. So 2 amps that can both drive the whole 'headphone range' from 16 to 600 Ohm but are 'optimized' in 2 steps.... 16 – 120 Ohm and 120 - 600 Ohm. Tweaking: Increasing the class-A current of the Horizon by a factor 2 would solve the power 'restriction' for low impedance headphones (200mW is not exactly a restriction) but power consumption would double as well to 35W meaning the size of the heat-sinks would need to be much bigger. Since these amps are DIY this can be done and will be glad to help those that want this. An amp that can drive all headphones to higher power will be developed but won't be class-A because of it's size and power consumption. This one will be called Ember. Anyone (meaning RG members based in Europe) that are interested in auditioning or reviewing any of these amps can PM me. Try before you buy is also a possibility. Ultimately both amps are 'for sale'. Serial number Horizon = 0000 Serial number Sunrise II = K0010 They were used to test the boards and tweak the the amplifier's performance. Some specs of the Horizon amp: 32 Ohm HP low output R setting: power: 180mW Harmonic distortion at -3dB FS: 1st -49dB, 2nd -62dB, 3rd – 75dB THD+noise: 0.6% at -10dB: Harmonic distortion at -3dB FS: 1st -58dB, 2nd -75dB, 3rd – 95dB THD+noise: 0.2% 600 Ohm low output R setting. Power: 330mW Harmonic distortion at -3dB FS: 1st -50dB, 2nd -62dB, 3rd – 73dB THD+noise: 0.6% at -10dB: Harmonic distortion at -3dB FS: 1st -68dB, 2nd -79dB, 3rd – 95dB THD+noise: 0.1% freq. range (Philips 6JD8/ECC88): -0.5dB: 10Hz - 160kHz (into 32 Ohm) -3dB: 4Hz - 400kHz (into 32 Ohm) Uout max: 14.1Vrms (R>300 Ohm) output power into: (output R set to 1.5 Ohm) 16R 80mW 32R 180mW 64R 370mW 120R 650mW 300R 650mW 600R 330mW output power into: (output R set to 35 Ohm) 16R 80mW 32R 180mW 64R 350mW 120R 570mW 300R 530mW 600R 300mW output power into: (output R set to 120 Ohm) 16R 80mW 32R 180mW 64R 370mW 120R 410mW 300R 320mW 600R 220mW squarewave reproduction of 10kHz squarewave and 100kHz squarewave in a 60 Ohm load. The 10kHz squarewave showing no audible bandwidth limiting at all. No overshoot or ringing and nicely rounded off edges. Tests with 1nF and 10nF capacitive loads showed no instability nor audible bandwidth limiting. Distortion figures for the Sunrise-II are slightly better than Horizon under the same conditions. However at the same output voltage level the Horizon is marginally better. Sunrise-II power specs: freq. range (Philips 6JD8/ECC88): -0.5dB: 10Hz - 150kHz (32 Ohm) -3dB: 4Hz - 350kHz (32 Ohm) Uout max: 6.3Vrms (R>120 Ohm) Output power into: (output R set to 5 Ohm) 16R 350mW 32R 920mW 64R 530mW 120R 300mW 300R 130mW 600R 65mW Output power into: (output R set to 68 Ohm) 16R 75mW 32R 130mW 64R 140mW 120R 135mW 300R 90mW 600R 50mW To adjust the bias there is no need to grab the multimeter/voltmeter nor to take off the top or bottom with the aid of 2 LED's (that can be switched off and are located behind the right heatsink). The 6V/12V tube setting can also be changed without taking the top off. So fast tube rolling/setting is possible. The output resistance settings can be accessed from the sides (5 and 68 Ohm) for the Sunrise-II and 1.5, 35 and 120 Ohm in the Horizon. These amps can also be used as a pre-amp as it now also has RCA out sockets. The relay circuit has been altered/improved so you can also switch off the amps by disconnecting the power supply from the mains without loud 'plops'. Sonically and power wise the Sunrise and Sunrise-II do not differ (at least not measurably) much. The differences are mainly in ease of use. Available in kit and built versions from Jeremy (Garage 1217)
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2012 9:06:57 GMT
It looks delicious, Frans. Would you fancy a Sunrise trade in? The square wave looks great. It's got a lot of kick in it. Class A. Tube. Big heatsinks (hooray) It looks really nice. I'll sell you my body if you like. Headphone tart!!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2012 19:50:36 GMT
Thank you Frans ...... He's done it again. The Horizon prototype arrived today and I'm sold!! I give in. It is GOOD to say the least. It has a double sized heatsink (more on that later) and has a slightly larger footprint than the Sunrise. It's similar in looks but is a bit sleeker because it's wider. So I turned it on and let it warm up. With the Denon D2000 which is laser like for problems, my first feelings were that I would detect noise for sure with such low impedance headphones and glitches up top because it's a tube and the Denons seem to recognise tubes very easily!! Big surprise - almost as quiet as a mouse. No hums, minimal hiss, electrical or airborn noise whatsoever - from an open frame design? When you look at these designs, being so open, your first thoughts are noise but this is really good. Listening to music turned up another surprise. How much better can these amps get? This amp punches out a heavyweight, clean sound that seemed to be cleaner than my Sunrise on first listen. To make sure that it wasn't new toy syndrome, I asked the wife to randomly switch the headphone with the same music after I'd set them both at about the same volume. I got the Horizon 100% so it's not just me being delighted with a new toy. The key points that helped me differentiate were: a) subjectively deeper bass. b) more extended treble. c) something really clear in the mids that made the imaging seem more focused. d) an amazingly fast and powerful bass slam. I then listened longer term and to be honest, it's a lovely amp. It plays well at low volume and sounds really balanced while also becoming a huge scale listen at loud volume. The sound is so delicious, I was too tempted to play it loud and had to control myself somewhat. It has the power to blow your head off. I like the Sunrise a lot but this has the edge. It also has bags more power. Looking at details of build etc. Lovely tracking on the volume pot, right down to the bottom. Jeremy has tested all volpots for the Sunrise II and Horizon so they are hand picked for quality. He sent any that didn't test well back!! The top screws on so it is really easily lifted and there are jumper leads in the front of the top so that you can configure the output impedance as you like. In spite of what the great 'oracle' twin says, I really feel that the K601 benefits from configuring this amp at 120 ohms. It loses it's 'glassy' type sound and becomes more natural. If you're not as sensitive to headphones as I am, maybe this is not such an issue, but for me, it is an important difference and this amp actually has enough power to deliver at 120 ohms properly which is a godsend for me and my sensitive lugs. Frans idea of a configurable amp in the form of the C.H.A.M.P. is absolutely brilliant ideal imo and I'm amazed that no-one has taken to making them to put out as well. If you have a K701, 601 or the w1000 type headphones, it makes them much more evenly balanced. (At least for sensitive souls like me) The Horizon offers some configurability along with a tube sound. I like the K601 a lot on 120 ohms. It actually starts to sound like a warm headphone. This amp also has enough power to do that easily - there aren't many of them around!!! Very low impedance headphones (32 and below) will show a minute amount of amp hiss which can be 'configured' out with an output impedance change. Low impedance headphones aren't the best on a tube amp, but this is as good as it gets. My Denons totally shut down any noise by getting at the jumpers. The K601 positively improves as well, while the sound changes aren't so obvious on the Denons. Tube rolling is a doddle. The only thing that I felt could be improved; especially if it's a DIY amp is to go mad on the heat sinking. I have memories of a Little Dot setting light to itself due to heat build up so I am nervous of these things. My Sunrise has some crafty heatsinking (although some would call it ugly I guess) but Mike put 3 heatsinks on (not 2) and he linked them together with a connecting rod across the top. The result is that my Sunrise runs really cool and I can leave my hand resting on the heatsinks all of the time. I'm happy with that. The Horizon heatsinks get hot which is not surprising in an amp with this power at class A and putting my hand on them after using the amp for a couple of hours was a bit too hot for my liking. I could leave my hand on the heatsinks for just about 3 seconds before it started to burn. For me that's still a bit hot. If the amp is left on here in the Summer, it might get worse and in somewhere like Miami, it might really build up. Since it's a DIY amp, I would be inclined to add another heatsink on top giving a total of 3 on each side. It makes a lot of difference and imo is crucial to the longevity of the amp. So, in short, the amp is brilliant sounding. I wish I had the skills to put these things together because if you buy a kit and put it together yourself, you are getting a really expensive sounding amp. I don't know what the kits will retail at yet but it has a seriously good sound. I love the Sunrise but now realise that there is even more potential to be had from the design and if you've heard the Bravo, you just wouldn't believe the improvements that both the Horizon and Sunrise offer to that design. It's way above in terms of sound quality and the Horizon has scuppered my Sunrise which I am so fond of!! The addition of the D2000 has raised my expectations from amps a lot since they are really good at pointing out minor differences and it picks out the Horizon with ease. The big question is whether it's worth changing the Sunrise for the Horizon. IMO it really is. You get a harder hitting bass with greater slam, a very extended treble with a lovely inner clarity. It's not until you put the two side by side that you notice but my first impression on hearing it on its own was ...... this is really good. If you are using headphones that are perhaps not as revealing as the D2000, you may not notice as much difference as I did, but it is stunning on the HD650 and the K601!!!! (Yes K601) set the jumpers to 120 ohms and you get a warmer K601. It drives the Denon D2000 really well which surprised me. These are kind of middle budget headphones and they can detect differences between the Sunrise and Horizon. Lesser headphones would perhaps point it out less. However, there's no denying, it's a really excellent headphone amp, but I'd suggest more heatsinking with the kit and just bolt it on in spite of what it looks like!! The amp would then last longer before scorching.
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Post by dragan on Apr 20, 2012 21:05:15 GMT
Links/prices?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2012 21:37:07 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2012 21:48:16 GMT
Being able to configure this amp is such a bonus as well.
For the Sennheiser HD650, say, you can set the amp at virtually zero ohms output impedance by simply shifting two jumpers in the top of the amp.
However, shift them and then move the jumpers on the side of the amp and you can have it set at 32 or 120 ohms out. SUCH a good idea.
When you have headphones at 300 ohms and another one at 25, this is a godsend. 25 ohm headphones are nice and sensitive and all that, but they will tend to hiss on many amps but on the Horizon, simply set the output impedance and it's totally silent. Luckily, it doesn't change the Denon sound massively but it transforms the K601.
Also, not many amps can drive this much power when set at 120 ohms output impedance. This amp drives the K601 to deafening volume at 120 ohms!!!! It's a new headphone. How wrong is the evil twin?
Absolutely brilliant.
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Post by Garage1217 on Apr 20, 2012 22:01:24 GMT
Right on, Great review Ian Glad you are enjoying it! Some notes: - The original Sunrise has been discontinued since January / Sunrise II is shipping now. Horizon will be shipping in the next few weeks and pre-orders or inquiries are welcome! - Sunrise II and Horizon share the same PCB / Chassis size and both are equally quiet. Parts are quite different between the two amps. Different enough that it would not be worth it to convert a Sunrise II to a Horizon or the other way around - As Frans pointed out, Horizon and Sunrise II are built for two distinct purposes so one should choose according to their needs and headphone collection. - While hot, heat is no issue with the amp. One of the original sunrise amps has been powered on and running for about a year now 24/7 for a reliability test without issue, just sits on a shelf powered up and dusty. I am looking into custom heatsinks, however it is a fine balance with price on these amps / has been a real challenge keeping the price low and component-PCB quality very high. Some ideas I am playing around with add $40+ to the price of the amp which puts it at a bad price point which is why I have stuck with this heatsink design. Still looking at it however, but no one should have any fear of it the way it is. Also, no pre-built Sunrises or Sunrise II amps have had any issue that required warranty work to date which says a lot and the quality is the reason I had no worries about slapping a 2 year warranty on built amps.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2012 22:11:41 GMT
Jeremy, you've hit the jackpot!! This is the business. The power gives your headphones more authority but the configuration is absolute genius.
A tube amp driving 25 ohm a high quality headphone. The Denons will pull out flaws pretty easily and any noise issues. It is totally silent by changing the output impedance and the sound seems to stay about the same. (Don't forget, I have bat's ears and I'm talking minutia here) I tried another amp recently and this issue couldn't be addressed!!
However, the AKG headphones which seem to work better at 120 ohms anyway, sound brilliant on it. It takes the glass edge off so they are much more listenable. Of course, if you like that 'glass' you can leave it at virtually zero ohms output impedance. The power is amazing on the K601. Normally they are quite hard to drive (and the K701) but these would deafen you on the Horizon.
The configuring is a touch of genius imo and that along with its huge amount of power makes it a killer amp in my eyes.
I love my Sunrise and use it every day but this amp surpasses it and really does sound like an expensive piece of kit.
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Post by Garage1217 on Apr 20, 2012 22:24:06 GMT
Very cool While bias is manual, have you tried to roll some tubes with the LED bias tool on the amp? Just set the jumper to the left or right channel and use a jewelers screwdriver to adjust it via the LED's. Pretty quick and easy. Also no need to take the top cover off! Frans did a killer job on his side of things with the circuitry, At the price these amps sell for, I am very happy with them. If one wants to browse, here is a build manual for the Sunrise II. The Horizon manual is still in the works. I will be updating the Sunrise II manual tonight to note which includes some of Frans recent circuitry updates! www.garage1217.com/PROJECTSUNRISE/SUNRISEII/SUNRISE-II-MANUAL-APRIL-2ND-2012.pdf
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2012 19:02:34 GMT
The K601 is quite a heavyweight headphone on 120 ohm setting. I normally don't use it for Shpongle type stuff, but I tried it today and it's giving a very fat sound.
It's kind of like the glass edge has been shaved away, but in actual fact, it is still going high but the sharp emphasis that you can get is just smoother. Because of this, it feels really comfortable turning it up so you feel that you have more weight in the bass.
The Horizon seems to match well with the AKG and has a lot of power left in reserve. I'm used to going past 12 o clock on most amps. The Horizon is deafening way before that.
I'm listening now at 9 o clock and there's plenty of volume with bags in reserve.
It's a shame that amps don't offer the option of 120 ohms out. That makes the Horizon quite unique and very adaptable.
Not only unique, but extremely good sounding.
Edit:
The ATH-A900 seems to work well at 120 ohms too. It just seems more 'even'.
For people expecting massive tone shifts - it's not. It's more subtle than that. The headphones retain their same basic characteristics, but the treble in particular becomes slightly different. On some headphones you can get a 'harshness' up top which suggests that they need rolling off. However, changing the impedance can retain the same extension but somewhere else in the treble is slightly altered so the treble is no longer aggressive.
Because of that, the bass 'seems' fuller. Some headphones seem to become more 'even'. You need to be finely attuned to your headphone to notice it but there are real changes on some headphones.
My Denons don't react massively. However that's a bonus because the are such low impedance. They are very sensitive to hiss and so putting the output impedance to 32 or 120 cleans all noise out totally.
It's such a pity that not many amps have this facility. I'm beginning to think it's essential for critical listening.
However, if you then try to describe a headphone's sound, it may well not match what other people hear if their amps are close to zero ohms out.
The output impedance is a REAL bonus on the Horizon for sensitive souls like me!!
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Post by sgtpluck on Apr 23, 2012 12:43:19 GMT
Well, I haven't even auditioned my Sunrise II yet as it's still being built, but I can now see that I'm actually going to be needing the Horizon! My beloved HD600's are 300 Ohm, and I want that dynamic! Anybody using HD600's with the Sunrise? Anybody want to swap a Sunrise for a Horizon? N
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2012 13:37:08 GMT
HD600 will reach 118dB on the SunriseII (5 Ohm setting) and 117dB in 68 Ohm setting. This is just under the pain treshold and pretty uncomfortable already.
The Horizon adds 7 dB to 300 Ohm headphones compared to Sunrise-II so can reach 125 dB in 1.5 Ohm setting and 123dB in 120 Ohm setting and exceeds the pain treshold.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2012 14:27:24 GMT
Well, I haven't even auditioned my Sunrise II yet as it's still being built, but I can now see that I'm actually going to be needing the Horizon! My beloved HD600's are 300 Ohm, and I want that dynamic! Anybody using HD600's with the Sunrise? Anybody want to swap a Sunrise for a Horizon? N Actually, for folk like me with so many different types of headphone, the ability to configure the impedance out is the thing that is more useful than sheer power. Having said that, it is frigging loud to say the least. However, for HD600 or 650 (600 less so perhaps), then you'd want it at zero output impedance anyway. For my other headphones - like Denon and AKG's, they sound better to me at 120 ohms out. Serves me right for having so many headphones. My Senns sound brilliant from the Sunrise and the AKG's from the Horizon. The Denon doesn't seem to mind too much what drives it. I prefer the Horizon (even with it's hot water bottle heat) because of the configuration options but a one or two headphone guy might save money by having a Sunrise and it's a close call. They are very similar - you just need bat ears like me!! I was listening to Tchaikovsky's 4th Symphony on it last night through the Denons and it is positively thunderous. The sheer weight and attack you get on timps and bass drums is emotional to say the least. That symphony is a real journey from the first movement string phrases, to the plaintive oboe melody in the 2nd to the comedy of the 3rd and then on to the power and drama of the 4rth movement. Both the Sunrise and the Horizon deliver a dynamic attack that is really awesome: to the point that Tchaik 4 grips you by the 'you know whats' all the way through with the dramatic presentation that you get through these amps. They both communicate music really well. So don't feel you're missing as much as I might make out by getting a Sunrise. I love the Sunrise too - a great deal. The Horizon delivers big time on the AKG's. (as well as the Denons - which is strange because I would imagine the Denons need a lot of current)
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Post by sgtpluck on Apr 23, 2012 14:30:19 GMT
HD600 will reach 118dB on the SunriseII (5 Ohm setting) and 117dB in 68 Ohm setting. This is just under the pain treshold and pretty uncomfortable already. The Horizon adds 7 dB to 300 Ohm headphones compared to Sunrise-II so can reach 125 dB in 1.5 Ohm setting and 123dB in 120 Ohm setting and exceeds the pain treshold. Thanks for this. I'll freely admit to being clueless about electricity and the theory thereof - which is the 'correct' setting for the HD600 300Ohm then? I read somewhere that the output should be at least 1/8 of the HP impedance - which suggests that the 10 Ohm jumper setting ( on my particular PSII ) is the one to use. Is that right? Cheers. ( Edit - and thanks Rabbit for the input - we posted at the same time ).
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2012 15:09:13 GMT
The 1/8thor 1/10th rule comes out of the speaker corner where somewhat different rules apply as resonances are 'damped' electrically with certain speaker constructions. Damping of the membrane in headphones is mostly mechanical and doesn't rely on electrical damping in the same manner. Rules are there to be broken. Have a play with the output settings (low and high) and listen for yourself. That's what they are there for. You can't damage your headphones in either setting. Whatever you think sounds best is best for you.
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Post by sgtpluck on Apr 23, 2012 15:31:31 GMT
The 1/8thor 1/10th rule comes out of the speaker corner where somewhat different rules apply as resonances are 'damped' electrically with certain speaker constructions. Damping of the membrane in headphones is mostly mechanical and doesn't rely on electrical damping in the same manner. Rules are there to be broken. Have a play with the output settings (low and high) and listen for yourself. That's what they are there for. You can't damage your headphones in either setting. Whatever you think sounds best is best for you. Thanks, I will. I'm jumping the gun here anyway through general excitement - I haven't even got the thing yet! N
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Post by sgtpluck on Apr 23, 2012 17:53:09 GMT
Sorry - one other thing to clarify - my manual for the PSII states that the jumpers settings are either 10Ohm or 68Ohm, whilst Solderdude, you mention above that the lower setting is 5Ohm. My PSII is not the latest revision - can you confirm whether my lower setting will be 5 or 10 Ohm?
Thanks.
Neil
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2012 17:58:47 GMT
Hi Neil,
Jeremy provided 12 Ohm for R5. When you change this to 5.6 Ohm value (0.4W to 1W) it will be O.K.
Some other values have changed as well. I can send you the BOM list (Bill Of Materials) so you can cross reference and see which values have changed.
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Post by sgtpluck on Apr 23, 2012 19:13:33 GMT
Hi Neil, Jeremy provided 12 Ohm for R5. When you change this to 5.6 Ohm value (0.4W to 1W) it will be O.K. Some other values have changed as well. I can send you the BOM list (Bill Of Materials) so you can cross reference and see which values have changed. That would be great, thanks. I'll PM you. Neil
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Post by Garage1217 on Apr 23, 2012 21:27:46 GMT
Hello Neil, Yours is not the latest revision as the updates are very, very new and I think yours shipped early March. Not many parts need changed, just a few values so not a biggie. Let me know if you need assistance!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2012 21:24:03 GMT
I've done some longer listening on the Senn 650 now. The Horizon really grips the Senn well. Tight and hard hitting bass and good clarity in the top.
I set the output impedance back to 'zero' (or close to) and the Senns develop a lovely fat, warm sound but to my ears, the treble seems a little cleaner and cuts through well actually.
If you know your headphones sounds well, an amp can really help to clear away what you feel are the weak areas of headphones. I like the HD650 except sometimes, I feel the need for more glitter in the top end. For that reason, I tend to use them for loud listening.
The Horizon adds an edge of control to them so that they don't need to be as loud to be as satisfying to listen to imo. In comparison to other headphones, the Senn mids can feel a little 'harsh' and 'crude' to me. They still have that incredible mid presence but the two extremes seem slightly more 'colourful' giving the Senns a more lively character.
Tomorrow, I'll bring the 250 ohm DT150's home and try them. They're often a bit of a challenge for amps. (For them to sound right)
If I'm honest, so far, the Horizon hasn't been caught out with different loads and headphone sounds.
It has bags of power so AKG's are like a portable headphone on it. The Senns become so lively, you wouldn't believe that people describe them as a 'slow' headphone. I find them fast actually, but they can have a lovely inner clarity with a bit of power behind them.
The DT150 is the same. Feed them power and they seem to grow in scale.
The DT770 sounds very good too. (80 ohms) I had the amp on zero and 38 ohms output impedance for them.
However, the abundance of power and the output impedance configuration works well, so you'd find a setting that'll probably suit most headphones well. That's why it doesn't get caught out with all my headphones I guess.
Tiny amount of (maybe tube) hiss comes through on very low impedance, but just alter the output impedance to 38 ohms (which doesn't make mind boggling sound changes) and the hiss completely disappears. Open it to zero ohms for the Senns and it has an enormous amount of power and the Senns sparkle.
My feeling is that this one is a great option (depending on the price it goes for I guess) when you have that power and configuration at the change of a jumper on the amp. Dead simple and really effective.
I really like this amp. It kind of continues to grow on you with time once you realise how good it makes so many headphones sound.
If you only have one or two headphones, then maybe the configuration aspect wouldn't be a major thing, but I must admit that this is the first time I've used an amp that I can slightly alter to suit the headphone and it works really well, opening up a lot more headphones, properly matched at your disposal.
That's why I collect amps - I try to match them to headphones. Doesn't always work but the Horizon does, mainly due to the large amount of power that it has so it just doesn't get into trouble with difficult loads.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2012 17:19:40 GMT
24 ohm Sony MDR7506 pro headphones today. These have not been my favourite headphones because of the top, edgy sound. The Horizon, once again is not at all hampered by having such a low impedance headphone attached. I fact, the Sonys seem to rise to the occasion and clearly benefit from a nice powerful signal behind them. The weird thing is that I really didn't like them at first. I ran them for a ridiculous amount of time attached to a radio in a cupboard, (for months). IMO, they improved. The edge seemed to recede slightly. On the Horizon, they have a very punchy and dynamic bass attack. They seem to improve quite a bit with amplification. I've always worked on the premise that valve amps are better off with high impedance headphones, being able to provide more voltage swings than current. However, the Horizon seems absolutely fine with low impedance headphones. I've left it set at 35 ohms output impedance and there's absolutely no noise whatsoever and the bass weight is incredible for these small headphones. I set it to 120 ohms and imo, the Sonys are less strident in the top end. Still go high but less edgy in tone. I know they're considered as pro 'monitor' headphones by some and to me, they've always seemed to have a hump in the frequency response high up, giving the feeling of a sucked out mid and thinner bottom end; not going particularly deep. On the Horizon, the bottom end is almost physical and punches hard. It seems deep, but perhaps it's more mid bass than deep, but it sounds impressive nevertheless. Perhaps I was a bit harsh on the Sonys when I first got them. They seem to have 'ironed' out over time and sound less raw; plus this amp is giving it a lot of power to dance on your head to!!! Just shows how your tastes can shift with time..... or the combination is just a good one. The more I adjust and use this amp, the more I really like it. I've not even played around with valves - just as is and it really is a nice sounding amp. I remember the Bravo and the Indeed of which I preferred the Indeed by quite a bit since it seemed more 'natural' to my ears. The Horizon feels 'right' to me as well. It's the kind of sound that you feel at home with and you 'know' straight away that it has absolute authority and control. It seems to improve all of my headphones and they all start to seem more lively and musical with it. In fact, the Horizon with its configuration capabilities is making me revisit old headphones and start to hear them in a new light. It has also made me feel that many amps may well be underpowered. Once you hear that dynamic range that it offers, others seem to sound a bit 'pale' by comparison. I've forgotten my DT150's but I wondered, Frans - are they another headphone designed to work better at 120 output impedance? They're a darker headphone and I remember at one time, I thought that Beyers were all designed to work with 120, but you were saying, not so at the time. This output impedance has subtle effects on headphones and it would be nice to be able to work out exactly what going from zero to 120 does. The makers don't give us a clue as to what the output impedance ought to be but I am finding 120 really quite good on a lot of headphones. The DT770 even seems more even, I think. It has a fat bass and it's set against a steely treble. Set the amp at 120 and the mids seem to improve because the steely top has receded slightly. The only thing is, I don't think the 770 was designed for 120 ohm output, but to my ears, it seems more 'even'. Now the evil twin would be hopping!! I find myself using 120 ohms more and more - not just because I can, but I prefer the slight roll off in the top and the 'evenness it seems to bring to a lot of headphones. The Horizon deserves to do really well when it goes out. Any signs of a price level yet, Jeremy?
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Post by Garage1217 on Apr 29, 2012 3:31:51 GMT
Hey Ian, Good reads! Horizon is currently available for pre-order now with an expected ship date of may 7th. A kit will be $254.99 and a fully built / tested Horizon will be $299.99. Optional hard carrying case runs $30 extra for either a kit or built and tested amp. Just shoot me a PM and I can send a paypal invoice to any interested parties. Horizon will be added to my webstore on May 7th.
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elysion
Been here a while!
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Post by elysion on Apr 29, 2012 9:37:04 GMT
I'm very impressed with the work that Jeremy and Frans did. Both the Sunrise-II and the Horizon seem to be a great improvement over the original design.
Based on my preferred 'phones, I'd say the Horizon probably would fit my needs a bit better. I already have an original Sunrise here, so I'd go probably for the Horizon. Unfortunately, I'll have to wait since I can't spend much money in the next few months (lost my job). Perhaps, I'll sell something out of my headphone/amp armory to fund a few new additions, but we will see...
Maybe I have missed it: Did anyone give the (Austrian built) K701/K702's a try with the Horzion at 120Ohm output impedance. IMHO the Horizon could be THE amp for these very picky headphones. I'm using my original Sunrise with the Philips E88CC SQ (Special Quality) tubes from the 60's since I can't match them anymore for use in amps with two tubes. These tubes have been the best match with the K702's so far, but I just had not the possibility to use them somewhere also with 120Ohm output impedance (which I think should be very advantageous for the K702's).
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elysion
Been here a while!
Team Anti M$ AND Facebook.
contra torrentem
Posts: 2,375
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Post by elysion on Apr 29, 2012 9:49:46 GMT
Maybe not exactly something for this thread, but I've had the idea while reading this thread: We've seen quite a few modifications of amps during the last 12 months. Often, greater heatsinks and otherwise better cooling was part of these mods, for example bigger heatsinks for the original Sunrise design. My main goal since the last autumn was to build computers at work and at home. Most cooling in the computer area is done active (with lost of fans...). But if we forget about the fans, we'd notice that computers often use great heatsinks (equipped with fans...) that incorporate heatpipe and/or heatlane technology. It won't be really something for the Sunrise-II/Horizon, but I can imagine that for some designs, a (passive) heatpipe cooler could be an interesting solution with very good cooling performance. Heatlanes aren't really common and often a bit difficult to use, specially those cooper heatlanes that can be formed ONCE. They are very fragile. In theory, water-cooling could be also interesting, but I don't like it really. It's very time-consuming and costly and is a latent risk for the hardware itself if coolant is leaking. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_pipe
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